Why are Full-Frame cameras so GD expensive

[EssExTee]

Like for real this is so stupid. The Sony α7 is seven years old, a year older than my α6000, and they're routinely selling used for $500+. I picked up the α6000 for $300 and that was two years ago.

I have a set of vintage Hexanon lenses that are just sublime to shoot with, but there's terrible cropping (see below, the blurred outer part is an approximation of the lost image area) on the APS-C α6000. If I want to do a portrait or something I have to back up almost ten feet from the subject to frame them as desired, even with a 40mm lens. A full size sensor would reduce if not eliminate the crop.

A teleconverter could possibly fix this, but I can't find a combo teleconverter/adapter, which means I have to stack them which means my lenses are now all three inches longer.

So, that means buying either a full frame camera, or a full set of compatible lenses for my current camera. Both options are ridiculously expensive. Dammit.

[ForSweden]

The yields on the CCD must be terrible

[spacekraken]

@EssExTee Seems like the general rule is at least double the comparable crop camera prices. I got my 6D for a song a couple years ago ($500 in a $900 avg market), but otherwise wouldn't have upgraded. A 60D would've been maybe $200.

Having said that, FF is definitely hard/impossible to go back from once you make the jump...

[Shoop]

Hey i ALSO have an a6000

[EssExTee]

@forsweden It's a CMOS sensor

[EssExTee]

@shoop TWINSIES

[EssExTee]

@spacekraken The lack of depreciation is just amazing. Outside of industry-specialized niche products, no other piece of tech would still cost so much after 7 years. You can buy a brand new α7 from Sony for $1,000. Try selling a laptop or phone of that age for over half of the original price and you'll get laughed off the marketplace.

[spacekraken]

@essextee It's hilarious, in a jaded way isn't it?! I think sony is the only one that does that, but canon only updates every 5 years or so for the heavy hitter cameras. Still, it's amazing how good a 5-10 year old FF rig looks versus a modern crop camera-less resolution on the older FF usually, but way better tonality and all the fun effects of a big sensor.

[MUSASHI66]

They don't make as many as the "consumer" level cameras, they have more expensive parts, and many people want to get into FF stuff but the price of admission at new is too high.

I thought buying my 6D a few years ago was a game changer, but technology has moved so far past it, it is not even fair. I hate using mirrorless cameras - using the EV will never ever be remotely as nice as using the DSLR, but the sensors on the new crop of mirrorless full frames are spectacular and well worth the money if you're serious about photography. All the best lenses really shine when used with a FF.

I am still happy with the 6D and all the L lenses I have - until the light goes down

[spacekraken]

@musashi66 Good news is the 5DIV/R (30mp) or 6DII/RP (26mp) have the same sensors, so there's still SLR options out there that take the exact same photos as the mirrorless rigs!

[ttyymmnn]

@musashi66 I have a 7D, and have been shooting APS-C my whole life. My next purchase, though, will be a used 5D Mk II. Still a great camera, but also still pretty expensive.

[ttyymmnn]

@essextee My advice would be to sink the money into a FF body. It's going to be less expensive than buying new lenses, and the image quality should be better.

[MUSASHI66]

@spacekraken I've been toying with the idea of selling the 6D and my old 50D (a true dinosaur) to fund a purchase of a 6DMKII. I don't shoot enough to justify the 5DMKIV.

This usually only happens after I shoot something big - in this case, I did a wedding for a friend - and I realize the limitations of an older sensor in the dark, even when shooting wide open with a 35mm f/1.4 lens.

[MUSASHI66]

@ttyymmnn said in Why are Full-Frame cameras so GD expensive:

@musashi66 I have a 7D, and have been shooting APS-C my whole life. My next purchase, though, will be a used 5D Mk II. Still a great camera, but also still pretty expensive.

I would strongly consider 6DMKII instead unless there is something with the 5DMKII that you must have. Price is higher though, but even 6D can more than hold its own against a 5D MKII for a similar price.

My dad has a 5DMKII and I like the photos from my 6D way better.

[ttyymmnn]

@musashi66 I borrowed a friend's 6D and really disliked the ergonomics. The 5D/II is much more like my 7D. I don't like the added functionality (and complexity) of the back wheel on the 6D. It's like the turn signal stalk that is also the headlights, cruise control, and wipers.

[spacekraken]

@musashi66 It's at least a stop more high ISO/low light from what I hear, so probably a pretty good call!

[EssExTee]

@ttyymmnn I'll have disposable money like that in like a year maybe. I'm still clawing my way out of living off my credit cards during the initial quarantine. I do have the stock lens for my APS-C and it's very versatile (16-50mm zoom) but it just doesn't impart that magic quality on images that my Hexanons do. The stock lens just feels like an impossibly nice phone camera.

[ttyymmnn]

@musashi66 said in Why are Full-Frame cameras so GD expensive:

@spacekraken I've been toying with the idea of selling the 6D and my old 50D (a true dinosaur) to fund a purchase of a 6DMKII. I don't shoot enough to justify the 5DMKIV.

I'm still racing a 70D on my smaller lens (Tamron 17-50). In fact, that particular lens works very will with my 20D, sometimes even better than the 70D.

[dogisbadob]

Nothing wrong with an APS-C digital rebel

[EssExTee]

@dogisbadob There is something wrong. I can't use my favorite lenses!

[dogisbadob]

@essextee said in Why are Full-Frame cameras so GD expensive:

@dogisbadob There is something wrong. I can't use my favorite lenses!

I thought only Canon did that

[Roadkilled]

There is a lot of precision and complicated machining on a full frame camera. The connection for the lenses must be durable and precise preventing even the smallest amount of light leakage. The iris mechanism for the aperture needs to be precise.

A large part of the cost is related to the sensor. If you double the size of the sensor, the yield drops by more than half. On cheaper digital cameras, a manufacturer may tolerate a dead pixel here and there and use software to "guess" what it would see based on adjacent pixels. A good camera will require a sensor with no dead pixels, reducing yield even further. A professional photographer may want to enlarge their photograph to a large size where even small imperfections would be noticeable. Photographs that are going to be printed and end up on a wall need a much higher level of quality than images that may never be seen on anything larger than a computer screen.

[CB]

@essextee keep an eye on KEH. There's one under $500 USD.

[EssExTee]

@cb Damn you. I'm supposed to be saving money.

[CB]

@essextee We're already trying to sell BeaterGT on camera gear. The photography and Mk7 guys are generally terrible for this.