Boeing 737 MAX Cleared for Takeoff

[ttyymmnn]

Boeing 737-9 MAX awaits takeoff at Austin in 2019 (Tim Shaffer)

After more than 20 months grounded to the ground, the Boeing 737 MAX has been cleared to return to the skis after the Federal Aviation Administration reinstated the airliner's operating certificate. European regulators gave the MAX the go-ahead last month.

The highly publicized grounding came after two fatal crashes that were linked with Boeing's MCAS flight control software. The crashes brought intense scrutiny to both Boeing's production practices and management, as well as their cozy relationship with the FAA.

Despite the grounding, Boeing continued production of the troubled airliner, and now more than 500 undelivered airliners are parked on the ground on taxiways and in parking lots. Boeing is not free to deliver those aircraft.

Considering the microscope that the MAX was placed under, it should be the safest airliner in the sky. Still, American Airlines has plans to let customers know if they will be flying on a MAX, and Boeing itself has chosen to rebrand the airliner to remove "MAX" from its name.

Breaking: Boeing 737 MAX Recertified In The United States (Simple Flying)

[DipodomysDeserti]

@ttyymmnn I keep seeing this idea that the Max will be the safest airliner in the sky, despite its poor design, because of the increased scrutiny. Are there no properly designed airplanes in service, or are they all designed to meet the bare minimum requirements?

[RallyDarkstrike]

Too little too late, I imagine....Boeing took a HUGE hit because of that plane...

[ttyymmnn]

@dipodomysdeserti My take is, had the FAA and Boeing done their jobs in the first place, we wouldn't be here at all. All airliners are built to a safety standard, but the MAX, which was a new design in many ways, was grandfathered under old certificates to save time and money. At the end of the day, all airliners are only as safe as the maintenance they receive, and maintenance definitely played a role in one of the crashes.

[ttyymmnn]

@rallydarkstrike Should have been a new design, not yet another iteration of the 73. Airbus is killing them with the A321.

[ranwhenparked]

@ttyymmnn

Hooray, just in time to fly nowhere due to every national and internal border on the planet being effectively closed indefinitely.

[ranwhenparked]

@ttyymmnn

Boeing needs to rebrand 737 Max, many people tell me, bad name, sad! Low energy plane, 727 was much better.

[Jb boin]

They simply waited for the new Berlin airport to finally open.

[ttyymmnn]

@jb-boin Love the avatar.

[Jb boin]

@ttyymmnn said in Boeing 737 MAX Cleared for Takeoff:

@jb-boin Love the avatar.

[GrindIntoSecond]

@dipodomysdeserti I can attest it is NOT a poorly designed plane. It's a 737, and that was designed pretty well and has been reliable since first built in the 60s. The bare minimum requirements are set under federal law, FAR part 21. And that is written in blood, not just theory.

At issue was purely a combination of MCAS system, and the third world pilots who don't know how to fly without an autopilot crutch. Turn it off. Fly it. Done. They didn't.

Boeing now made the plane flyable by all categories of country. First, third, is there a fourth world country?

The larger engine cowlings made more than expected lift at high angles of attack. MCAS was made to counter that automatically by trimming the elevator forces for you. But was there a problem? Sure, but nothing a, I stress, a properly trained pilot couldn't take care of. So they changed things to ensure the possibly mostly trained pilot could deal with it. Is that safer? Or adding more crutches to countries who should fully train their pilots?

Either way, it is a safe plane. And I get to fly it again soon. It is a great performer and quite good on gas at that and I wouldn't hesitate putting my family on it today. Cause I'm properly trained and capable of operating it without the autowizadry.

[Highlander]

@grindintosecond I've heard the same from other pilots, and I think you fly for the same airline that they do.

[Rusty Vandura]

@ttyymmnn I had a conversation with a SWA first officer who felt 100% confident in the MAX's competence. I suggested that each of the two incidents had much to do with lack of pilot skill, and he pretty much agreed.

[Rusty Vandura]

@ranwhenparked The border between Utah and California is open... </snark> Seriously though, Mrs. Vandura and I just flew to Utah and wore lots of masks and slathered lots of hand sanitizer. My daughter/husband/baby will fly here at Christmastime (well, we have the tickets anyway...) and take the same precautions. But I totally take your point. I wondered the same to @Grindintosecond , who drives 737s for a living (I think) and he was pretty adamant about airlines being eager to receive those aircraft.

[Rusty Vandura]

@grindintosecond Good Morning! I mentioned you a minute ago, but here you are. I chatted up a SWA FO this weekend and while he was considerably more circumspect -- and busy writing things on slips of paper and tucking them into various spots on the flight station before the next flight -- I'd conclude he felt exactly the same as you do.

[ForSweden]

Probably a good idea to hide this behind vaccine news

[ttyymmnn]

@grindintosecond Thanks for the lengthy reply.

Can you turn MCAS off if you don't know it exists? I know those crews were not the most seasoned, and they seem to have been overwhelmed by a number of factors. It's my understanding that Boeing has toned down the alarms and made it possible to disable the stick shaker?

It seems to me that the Max is one revision too far for the venerable 737. Perhaps it was you who complained about landing and takeoff speeds for such a long, low aircraft. I think Boeing missed the chance to make a brand new world-beater, instead relying on their trusty 737 because they didn't want to roll the dice and invest in a new design. The key word being "invest." To be sure, I wouldn't have wanted to be the one having to read the tea leaves, and nobody expected the Covid.

As I write about the Max from the safety of my armchair, I have always tried to be level in my take, since my knowledge is purely that of a slightly educated layman. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the matter.

[calzonegolem]

@ttyymmnn unrelated to the topic but how do you put a thumbnail for your post?

[ttyymmnn]

@calzonegolem said in Boeing 737 MAX Cleared for Takeoff:

@ttyymmnn unrelated to the topic but how do you put a thumbnail for your post?

Click this icon in the editor. Since it only makes a square photo, I will usually crop my own photo to put there, like I did for this post. This is technically an avatar photo, so it can only be square. This system does not use the top photo like Kinja did.

[calzonegolem]

@ttyymmnn Thanks!

[ranwhenparked]

@rusty-vandura we are now back on Pennsylvania's quarantine list, but we've got plenty of company - they added the entire world effective Friday - anyone arriving from anywhere quarantine for two weeks, or produces a recent negative test result. Which means my brother has already made an appointment to get tested after he comes over to help me with a project this weekend - he's unemployed, so doesn't mind sitting around at home for a few days waiting for results, and I've got to try and get tested again next week to go up there for Thanksgiving.

New Jersey is letting anyone in, as long as they're there for less than 24 hours, otherwise it's a two week quarantine or a recent test. Maryland is no restrictions right now, but probably coming soon. Considering my state is half the size of Philadelphia and has no commercial airline service, people tend to cross the border quite frequently just as part of daily life.

[ranwhenparked]

@ttyymmnn they didn't have time, Airbus surprised them with the A320Neo. Boeing was planning on an all-new 737 replacement, but didn't want to be stuck selling an outdated aircraft alongside the re-engined Airbus for ca. 10 years until it was ready.

[ttyymmnn]

@ranwhenparked Boeing dicked around too long on the 79. "Should we or shouldn't we?" Eventually it simply became too late.

[ranwhenparked]

@grindintosecond the fact that the same MCAS issue that caused the Ethiopian and Lion crashes was observed and reported by several pilots in the US who were all able to handle it might support that. The flight hours for the crew on the crashed planes were all pretty low

[DipodomysDeserti]

@grindintosecond I would think that withholding flight and autopilot characteristics from airlines would make it even more difficult to train "third world pilots". Although I don't think anyone considers Indonesia a third world country. You've flown it, so I'll defer to your analysis on how well it was designed. But to the layman, hearing about pilots crash commercial airliners (multiple times) because of the same problem, makes you think it's not a "good" design, even if better trained pilots can avoid crashing.