Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions

[Rusty Vandura]

So when it was new, Rusty came with disc brakes on the front. There's even a sticker on the back that brags about it.

The brakes work well enough -- I mean, they stop the van -- but the pedal needs a lot of force to actuate the brakes. I'd like to install an assist, a boost, but I don't want to spend $10,000 on a bunch of exotic Wilwood stuff. Can you suggest how I might proceed finding a vacuum boost that would work here? What's a good source for something like that? Also, would using the vacuum to boost the brakes require some kind of tuning change?

@CoolMinivan-Nobody @RacinBob @Old-Busted-Hotness

[flatisflat]

@Rusty-Vandura Bieri just did an aftermarket vacuum-boost install on ....one of... his vehicles recently, right? Seemed like it wasn't too expensive (but I don't recall the brand). His kit did require installing a new brake pedal because of the change in lever force needed to be appropriate when using a brake booster. And I think a vacuum booster for an NA engine setup shouldn't(?) require a tuning change.

[Zaphod's Heart of Gold]

@Rusty-Vandura were power brakes offered on any models of this van? If so you should just need a brake booster, possibly a master cylinder (yours looks...well, rusty), and you will need to fab some brake lines. Then run a vac line to the booster, the Edelbrock carb on my truck has a port for this but if yours is stock that may or may not be there.

Really an OEM-ish part from a similar model year should drop in, this is not the kind of thing a manufacturer will make a lot of different versions of and if they do anything should be better than nothing and most of them should fit.

[Rusty Vandura]

@flatisflat said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Rusty-Vandura Bieri just did an aftermarket vacuum-boost install on ....one of... his vehicles recently, right? Seemed like it wasn't too expensive (but I don't recall the brand). His kit did require installing a new brake pedal because of the change in lever force needed to be appropriate when using a brake booster. And I think a vacuum booster for an NA engine setup shouldn't(?) require a tuning change.

That was a hydroboost on his Grand "Bland" National and the kit was about $1,700. I enjoyed watching that episode.

[Rusty Vandura]

@Zaphod-s-Heart-of-Gold said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Rusty-Vandura were power brakes offered on any models of this van? If so you should just need a brake booster, possibly a master cylinder (yours looks...well, rusty), and you will need to fab some brake lines. Then run a vac line to the booster, the Edelbrock carb on my truck has a port for this but if yours is stock that may or may not be there.

Really an OEM-ish part from a similar model year should drop in, this is not the kind of thing a manufacturer will make a lot of different versions of and if they do anything should be better than nothing and most of them should fit.

It strikes me that someone who sells this stuff would know what would work. C-10 truck from the same year, maybe? Or an Impala wagon?

[CoolMinivan.......Nobody]

@Rusty-Vandura Do what I did when figuring all this stuff out on my 90s Mopars, go to a JY that has the things you're considering, take measurements, start pulling parts, and figure out what works and doesn't.

[jminer]

@Rusty-Vandura Non power brakes were still really common on Ford pickups from that era. An upgrade for them is pretty simple and it usually just installing the OEM spec parts that are assisted.

What year is your van again?

[Rusty Vandura]

@jminer said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Rusty-Vandura Non power brakes were still really common on Ford pickups from that era. An upgrade for them is pretty simple and it usually just installing the OEM spec parts that are assisted.

What year is your van again?

'71

I bet a lot of parts would interchange.

[EssExTee]

@Rusty-Vandura did the van share a lot of parts with the C/K from that era? I'd look into finding something from the GM family that can bolt right up.

Electric brake booster kits for old cars should be a thing.

[jminer]

@Rusty-Vandura said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@jminer said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Rusty-Vandura Non power brakes were still really common on Ford pickups from that era. An upgrade for them is pretty simple and it usually just installing the OEM spec parts that are assisted.

What year is your van again?

'71

I bet a lot of parts would interchange.

Quick googling didn't turn up anything terribly specific for that van. A search of RockAuto makes it looks like power brakes were an option on 1 ton vans as I see a part number for a booster there.

I'm not familiar enough with these vans to know for sure but I'd expect you could grab power brake systems for a late 70's or early 80's van and it would mostly bolt right up. You need something like this, but for your van. This is basically just all the stock power brake components for a GM Pickup of the era. Or buy the braket, booster, master cylinder and actuation rod all separately and it should work and only be a couple hundred bucks.

[DuckDuckGreyDuck]

@Rusty-Vandura what year is your van? If it falls in the 3rd Gen of 1971-1996 there has to be a more modern vacuum boosted option for it. The only hiccup I could see is if GM altered the firewall through the years. I do know they did do that to the C/K trucks.

[Rusty Vandura]

@jminer said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Rusty-Vandura said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@jminer said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Rusty-Vandura Non power brakes were still really common on Ford pickups from that era. An upgrade for them is pretty simple and it usually just installing the OEM spec parts that are assisted.

What year is your van again?

'71

I bet a lot of parts would interchange.

Quick googling didn't turn up anything terribly specific for that van. A search of RockAuto makes it looks like power brakes were an option on 1 ton vans as I see a part number for a booster there.

I'm not familiar enough with these vans to know for sure but I'd expect you could grab power brake systems for a late 70's or early 80's van and it would mostly bolt right up. You need something like this, but for your van. This is basically just all the stock power brake components for a GM Pickup of the era. Or buy the braket, booster, master cylinder and actuation rod all separately and it should work and only be a couple hundred bucks.

There's this, which ought to come close. But if you call LMC, you get a phone slave who looks at the same website I'm looking at and knows less than I do. And generally, van stuff is betwixt and between and seldom listed.

[jminer]

@Rusty-Vandura That's pretty much the same idea as the summit link. I don't know if the van and pickups share those brake parts though.

[ClassicDatsunDebate]

@Rusty-Vandura They look identical except for the booster pot

[Rusty Vandura]

@ClassicDatsunDebate Is that a C10? SOMEBODY out there knows...

[ClassicDatsunDebate]

@Rusty-Vandura said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@ClassicDatsunDebate Is that a C10? SOMEBODY out there knows...

that is a C10

[ClassicDatsunDebate]

@Rusty-Vandura Here's a '72 K5

[Rusty Vandura]

@ClassicDatsunDebate said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Rusty-Vandura said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@ClassicDatsunDebate Is that a C10? SOMEBODY out there knows...

that is a C10

I meant SOMEBODY knows if the brake parts would interchange with a van. There's a vacuum boost in those vans beginning in '73, looks like. Power assist in '71 was hydroboost on the 3500 and a 350 engine. Did some digging in RockAuto. Not sure why I didn't do that in the first place... The vacuum boost units are very thin on the ground.

@jminer

[ClassicDatsunDebate]

@Rusty-Vandura You may want to ask the question on a model specific forum. I'll bet someone has done it.

[RacinBob]

I guessed yours is a '74 so I looked them up and they had a brake booster option. This is unfortunately out of stock. Maybe you can find them separate or have a yard pull one for you?

[Old Busted Hotness]

@RacinBob has the right idea, get something from a later van and slap it in there. The master cylinder may or may not be the same, and yours looks crusty enough to warrant replacement anyway. You'll probably need the pedal, too.

You won't need to tune for a vacuum booster, just find a nice fat bung on the intake. Booster should take ~3/8 vacuum (not fuel line) hose.

[RacinBob]

@Old-Busted-Hotness I would suggest finding another gm model with the same brakes front and rear and using its booster and master.

I guess the other exercise is to see what is unique for the van having a booster vs other gm models.. gm didn't use a unique part for no reason. Look at the application. My guess is the common part needed space that the van doesn't have.

[Zaphod's Heart of Gold]

@Rusty-Vandura I did some rock auto digging (my first line on researching interchangeable parts) and the bigger vans did have a brake booster but it was belt driven not vacuum actuated, and currently unavailable. So that's not a great way to go.

The master cylinder on your van is shared with chevy trucks, vans, and full sized cars of the era so mating to a different booster should be easy enough.

as @ClassicDatsunDebate showed the C10/equivalent trucks used a vacuum booster on the firewall in the traditional style, it mounts with 4 studs from the booster through the firewall and is dead easy to install (I have a similar one on my old truck). Based on the pictures of your van it might be tricky because you have 4 studs or bolts coming through the firewall in the area it looks like that would mount, but I don't know what's on the other side. It may take minor modification on your part but I bet you can get that vacuum booster to work.

[Rusty Vandura]

@RacinBob said in Brakes Upgrade: Looking for Suggestions:

@Old-Busted-Hotness I would suggest finding another gm model with the same brakes front and rear and using its booster and master.

I guess the other exercise is to see what is unique for the van having a booster vs other gm models.. gm didn't use a unique part for no reason. Look at the application. My guess is the common part needed space that the van doesn't have.

I typed the OP in some haste and from all the responses, I realized what I should have included:

Rusty was a special order, option-delete van in Soccer Mom configuration. So it's a straight-six, three-on-the-tree and the only option was an AM radio. Window van with an optional rear seat that is many years gone. But with that straight-six they ordered a heavy-duty radiator and disc brakes because they pulled a popup trailer around with it. I'm guessing their top speed with the trailer must've been around 45 mph...

Anyhow, the wheels were 14 inch with 4-3/4 bolt pattern and small wheel studs a la station wagon and the rear end is an open 8-incher. So really light duty. I'm imagining that the brake parts might interchange with a station wagon as readily as they might with any truck.

As for that Cardone vacuum assist unit, I've found a remanufactured part from a seller on Amazon. They're out there. Also, there's "bore and stroke" for my existing master cylinder, according to my Old Pal in Tennessee who's been doing this for a thousand years, and whose advice has been great when it's been great. And less so at other times...

So that's where I'm at. More research necessary. As for interchangeability with C10 truck, the hood on the truck goes straight out from the rain drain and there could be fittage problems, but the '71 C10 had a vacuum assist and the master cylinder has the same bore size, 1.125". So we'll see...

Thanks for all of your input. I'll keep y'all posted.

@ClassicDatsunDebate @CoolMinivan-Nobody @DuckDuckGreyDuck @EssExTee @flatisflat @jminer @Old-Busted-Hotness @RacinBob @Zaphod-s-Heart-of-Gold

[Zaphod's Heart of Gold]

@Rusty-Vandura I wondered a bit about space and figured that's the only reason to change brake booster styles to a much more complicated version. But I'm not intimately familiar with van life and figured I might be able to offer a technical solution.

How do you feel about adding a clearance bump to the hood? Could be fun!