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    Tesla investigated for flash memory failures

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    • Just Jeepin'
      Just Jeepin' last edited by

      Move fast, break things.

      https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/11/after-12523-replacements-feds-investigate-tesla-media-control-unit-failures/

      FA74E79E-AC85-42F6-B9CB-A6148130CA38.jpeg

      Jeeps

      HammerheadFistpunch Tekamul 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • davesaddiction
        davesaddiction last edited by

        D'OH!

        Stock on its way back to 420?

        manual . RWD . LS3 . MagneRide . Brembos ... 4 doors + 5 seatbelts

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • HammerheadFistpunch
          HammerheadFistpunch @Just Jeepin' last edited by

          @just-jeepin Whew. Good news the gauges are indicators are there as redundant backups....

          Some kind of sentient rodent - Overland Curator.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • CarsOfFortLangley
            CarsOfFortLangley last edited by

            Kwality cars!

            Curator
            1986 Dodge D100 & 2021 Jeep Wrangler Willys

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • ?
              A Former User last edited by

              Yet people continue to buy them. I will NEVER understand the brand loyalty and the droves of idiots who look all their problems and say, "Yes, I want to pay tens of thousands of dollars to deal with a shitty car."

              Poor_sh MybirdIStheword CobraJoe 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Poor_sh
                Poor_sh @Guest last edited by

                @his_stigness said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                Yet people continue to buy them. I will NEVER understand the brand loyalty and the droves of idiots who look all their problems and say, "Yes, I want to pay tens of thousands of dollars to deal with a shitty car."

                Cult-like following isn't exactly rare around this country lol

                14' Cayman S | 99' Miata

                ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                • MybirdIStheword
                  MybirdIStheword @Guest last edited by

                  @his_stigness 50% of people are of below average intelligence

                  79 Firebird T/A
                  18 Focus ST
                  Consideration is given. Respect must be earned

                  frinesi2 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Tekamul
                    Tekamul @Just Jeepin' last edited by

                    @just-jeepin All high density flash should be serviceable. That shit's fragile.

                    2016 FXS | 2013 FRS | 2018 Outlander PHEV

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • Roadkilled
                      Roadkilled last edited by

                      Tesla has a history of this type of problem. They want to do things differently, so they avoid hiring to many experienced automotive engineers. In many cases, this works out well. Tesla has found some innovative ways of making an electric car. There are good reasons not to do things the way they have always been done in the past.

                      On the other hand, this means that you sometimes make stupid mistakes. There can be an attitude of "We are doing things in a way that haven't been done before!". Sometimes it wasn't done before because nobody thought of it. Sometimes it was because other people did think of it, but realized it was a bad idea.

                      For example, there were the sensors on the door handles for the Model S. Tesla though they could save a lot of money using solid wire to the sensors instead of stranded wire. However, that wire had to bend slightly every time the door handle presented/extended. The first fix was to move to stranded wire, but there wasn't anything to seal out moisture at the ends. Finally, they figured out how to use flexible printed circuits and waterproof coatings. The older auto companies learned not to use solid wires for flexible connection nearly a century ago. Tesla had to learn it on its own.

                      It's likely the same situation with this memory. An experience engineer would know not to use it for something that gets written so often, but Tesla has to learn it on their own.

                      I know a lot of Tesla owners and most of them like the newest technology toys. They didn't get their Tesla because they wanted a good car. They got it because they wanted a high-tech car. They think of themselves as early adopters and they expect bugs. They are willing to accept these problems as the cost of having the latest technology.

                      Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • Urambo Tauro
                        Urambo Tauro last edited by

                        Not sure what bothers me more- that this tech struggles to last even ten years, or that such critical vehicle functions are dependent on it.

                        1995 Mustang GT
                        1998 Wrangler Sport

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Highlander
                          Highlander last edited by

                          I did some quick back of the envelope math and 3000 cycles would be equivalent to 2 years of vehicle use in my household.

                          And you may ask yourself, "Where does that highway go to?"

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist
                            Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist @Roadkilled last edited by

                            @roadkilled said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                            Tesla has a history of this type of problem. They want to do things differently, so they avoid hiring to many experienced automotive engineers. In many cases, this works out well. Tesla has found some innovative ways of making an electric car. There are good reasons not to do things the way they have always been done in the past.

                            On the other hand, this means that you sometimes make stupid mistakes. There can be an attitude of "We are doing things in a way that haven't been done before!". Sometimes it wasn't done before because nobody thought of it. Sometimes it was because other people did think of it, but realized it was a bad idea.

                            For example, there were the sensors on the door handles for the Model S. Tesla though they could save a lot of money using solid wire to the sensors instead of stranded wire. However, that wire had to bend slightly every time the door handle presented/extended. The first fix was to move to stranded wire, but there wasn't anything to seal out moisture at the ends. Finally, they figured out how to use flexible printed circuits and waterproof coatings. The older auto companies learned not to use solid wires for flexible connection nearly a century ago. Tesla had to learn it on its own.

                            It's likely the same situation with this memory. An experience engineer would know not to use it for something that gets written so often, but Tesla has to learn it on their own.

                            I know a lot of Tesla owners and most of them like the newest technology toys. They didn't get their Tesla because they wanted a good car. They got it because they wanted a high-tech car. They think of themselves as early adopters and they expect bugs. They are willing to accept these problems as the cost of having the latest technology.

                            This fault has nothing to do with cars and everything to do with the service life of flash storage. People working at a company like Tesla should know these things. This was either a cost cutting measure (and a "let's deal with it when it happens" type situation), a crunch time mistake or just gross incompetence. Maybe even a combo of those three.

                            So this is either a massive fuckup by Tesla or intentional dishonesty and neither are acceptable. I mean if we're going to rake car companies over the coals for their screw ups, Tesla should get the same treatment.

                            I keep buying Land Rovers because I don't have a problem and I can quit anytime I want.

                            Jim Spanfeller is a herb.
                            https://www.jimspanfellerisaherb.com/

                            RallyDarkstrike 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • ?
                              A Former User @Poor_sh last edited by

                              @poor_sh said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                              @his_stigness said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                              Yet people continue to buy them. I will NEVER understand the brand loyalty and the droves of idiots who look all their problems and say, "Yes, I want to pay tens of thousands of dollars to deal with a shitty car."

                              Cult-like following isn't exactly rare around this country lol

                              No idea what gave you that impression.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • RallyDarkstrike
                                RallyDarkstrike @Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist last edited by

                                @bloody-the-resident-shitposting-saffer said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                                @roadkilled said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                                Tesla has a history of this type of problem. They want to do things differently, so they avoid hiring to many experienced automotive engineers. In many cases, this works out well. Tesla has found some innovative ways of making an electric car. There are good reasons not to do things the way they have always been done in the past.

                                On the other hand, this means that you sometimes make stupid mistakes. There can be an attitude of "We are doing things in a way that haven't been done before!". Sometimes it wasn't done before because nobody thought of it. Sometimes it was because other people did think of it, but realized it was a bad idea.

                                For example, there were the sensors on the door handles for the Model S. Tesla though they could save a lot of money using solid wire to the sensors instead of stranded wire. However, that wire had to bend slightly every time the door handle presented/extended. The first fix was to move to stranded wire, but there wasn't anything to seal out moisture at the ends. Finally, they figured out how to use flexible printed circuits and waterproof coatings. The older auto companies learned not to use solid wires for flexible connection nearly a century ago. Tesla had to learn it on its own.

                                It's likely the same situation with this memory. An experience engineer would know not to use it for something that gets written so often, but Tesla has to learn it on their own.

                                I know a lot of Tesla owners and most of them like the newest technology toys. They didn't get their Tesla because they wanted a good car. They got it because they wanted a high-tech car. They think of themselves as early adopters and they expect bugs. They are willing to accept these problems as the cost of having the latest technology.

                                This fault has nothing to do with cars and everything to do with the service life of flash storage. People working at a company like Tesla should know these things. This was either a cost cutting measure (and a "let's deal with it when it happens" type situation), a crunch time mistake or just gross incompetence. Maybe even a combo of those three.

                                So this is either a massive fuckup by Tesla or intentional dishonesty and neither are acceptable. I mean if we're going to rake car companies over the coals for their screw ups, Tesla should get the same treatment.

                                Flash storage can be ridiculously reliable...look at current Solid State hard drives for computers....so they likely also went with really shitty quality components.

                                '09 Hyundai Accent | Loves 2-cyl FIATs, old Euro, Eastern Bloc & kei cars!

                                ? Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist ? 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • ?
                                  A Former User @RallyDarkstrike last edited by

                                  @rallydarkstrike

                                  It's kind of sad you can't tell with Tesla whether it was an intentional cost cutting measure, or a fuck up.

                                  Either way, they look terrible. But it's worse you can't easily guess which it was.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist
                                    Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist @RallyDarkstrike last edited by

                                    @rallydarkstrike As someone who works with 30 datacenters, yeah it's pretty damn reliable if you don't buy a shitty $20 SSD.

                                    I keep buying Land Rovers because I don't have a problem and I can quit anytime I want.

                                    Jim Spanfeller is a herb.
                                    https://www.jimspanfellerisaherb.com/

                                    RallyDarkstrike 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • RallyDarkstrike
                                      RallyDarkstrike @Bloody-the-resident-LandRover-apologist last edited by

                                      @bloody-the-resident-shitposting-saffer said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                                      @rallydarkstrike As someone who works with 30 datacenters, yeah it's pretty damn reliable if you don't buy a shitty $20 SSD.

                                      Yup, agreed! I only have Crucial MX500-series and Samsung EVO 850/860 series in my personal builds!

                                      '09 Hyundai Accent | Loves 2-cyl FIATs, old Euro, Eastern Bloc & kei cars!

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • frinesi2
                                        frinesi2 @MybirdIStheword last edited by

                                        @mybirdistheword 50% are below mean intelligence but I have a feeling FAR more than 50% are below average intelligence ...

                                        ERROR

                                        Sorry, your signature
                                        cannot be longer than 75
                                        character(s).

                                        MybirdIStheword 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • MidEngine
                                          MidEngine last edited by

                                          I've never heard of a flash memory that can't handle a minimum of 100,000 re-writes. Sounds like they cut the wrong corner

                                          2007 Porsche Cayman, 2018 Toyota Tacoma SR5, 2019 Mazda MX-5 RF

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • MybirdIStheword
                                            MybirdIStheword @frinesi2 last edited by

                                            @frinesi2 average an mean are basically the same thing lol

                                            79 Firebird T/A
                                            18 Focus ST
                                            Consideration is given. Respect must be earned

                                            ? frinesi2 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • ?
                                              A Former User last edited by

                                              What's to investigate? This is a well-known Tesla fuck-up and general "rookie design mistake".

                                              This is also a side result of the "Move Fast and Break Stuff" design mentality-- which means, like a GM product on steroids, you never want to own the first few model year runs of a Tesla product.

                                              Between the non-working doors and MCU issues on an early Model S, the design nightmare of the X FulkinWing doors or the detachable-bumper-in-rain on the Model 3? Forget the first 36-48 months of production--- those are all "engineering mules".

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • ?
                                                A Former User @MybirdIStheword last edited by

                                                @mybirdistheword

                                                No. Mean and Median are two different forms of "average"

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • ?
                                                  A Former User @RallyDarkstrike last edited by

                                                  @rallydarkstrike

                                                  There's a well known limit on R/W cycles. The embedded OS in SSDs manages that limit.

                                                  This was all rookie, all-unforced errors at The Big Lazy T

                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • frinesi2
                                                    frinesi2 @MybirdIStheword last edited by

                                                    @mybirdistheword I meant median ...

                                                    Well, I guess I know where I stand now ...

                                                    ERROR

                                                    Sorry, your signature
                                                    cannot be longer than 75
                                                    character(s).

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • CobraJoe
                                                      CobraJoe @Guest last edited by

                                                      @his_stigness said in Tesla investigated for flash memory failures:

                                                      Yet people continue to buy them. I will NEVER understand the brand loyalty and the droves of idiots who look all their problems and say, "Yes, I want to pay tens of thousands of dollars to deal with a shitty car."

                                                      It's not unusual. BMW and Land Rover and Jeep all have very dedicated buyers.

                                                      But aren't we all here on Oppo because we value certain aspects of a car more than others? How many people here would choose a reliable Camry over anything else on the market? Hell, how many of us would choose a Model 3 instead?

                                                      Anyways, considering that any Tesla has no head gaskets to fail, no DCT transmissions that shift horribly, no emissions they can cheat, not even an ignition switch that can fail.... Well, they can afford a few failures elsewhere before owner satisfaction can dip to the level of some other manufactures. (Though they certainly seem to be exploring the boundaries of that "head start")

                                                      Overall though, I'll stick to my theory: Reliability is overrated.

                                                      '84 Mustang GT Convertible 5 speed
                                                      '21 Challenger R/T 6 Speed

                                                      ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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