I challenge you to... A DEBATE!

[rctothefuture]

I had a short and honestly quite boring debate with a few folks on Twitter over the safety of FSD with a few Tesla stans. Honestly I don't like to get into arguments, but I was inundated with people telling me that Tesla is working to make driving safer and that nothing is wrong with FSD...

Yeah.

So anyone, one of the fellas has as a YouTube channel and asked me to debate him on the subject of FSD and Tesla's technology. I'm no expert and a potential Tesla buyer, so not sure how I can be on the opposite side of supporting Tesla. That being said, I've started research and looking up the support of FSD to find counterpoints. I'm not going to change a Tesla fan's mind, but I think some compelling discussion about it might be enough to bring something to a Pro Tesla YouTube page.

Really, I'm doing it just because he retweeted me and I think he was expecting me to say "No" to his request of a debate. Anyway, I'll post up the debate on Saturday so you can join in on the fun.

[WildlyMild]

When the system fails or is overwhelmed people will have forgotten how to safely drive a car. Extreme weather like rain or snow could (or rather will) be extremely dangerous situations. Especially for newer , less “seasoned” drivers.

This is actually a large under the table away from legislative folks talking point for the diabetic community when talking closed loop “artificial pancreas” systems.

Having constant hands on interactions keeps us safer in the long run. Understanding machinery and having the ability to adjust matter. Lane keep assist and emergency braking are great. The rest is just making people dumber and scarier.

Hell, how many articles are posted every year about some idiot blindly following map software and driving into a lake or whatever. Now add a snow storm with some black ice to a car that you don’t know how to drive and it doesn’t want you to.

[Albino Kangaroo]

I was listening to a recent episode of the Smoking Tire and Matt was talking about the lawsuit stemming from a pre-FSD accident in 2018. His commentary on the 2022 deposition of the head engineer was enlightening. Things like Tesla not knowing or researchig human reaction time to determine how long a person would need to actually take over from the system.

[ike808]

@rctothefuture Why would you bother?

Just laugh and laugh and laugh…

And go about your day.

[HammerheadFistpunch]

@rctothefuture have you read torchinskys book? It's a good primer on the subject.

[pip bip]

@rctothefuture Tesla-stans. there's the problem

[derp]

Can't wait to see two master debators go at each other

[Vondon302]

@rctothefuture Well I'm grabbing popcorn for this. Snowy day here in Michigan and I passed a Tesla going dangerously slow this morning. Like 30mph while traffic was going 50 to 60.

[rctothefuture]

@ike808 Not sure if you ever heard of LazerPig, but he had a recent debate with a Pro Russian gentleman living in Ukraine. The debate started off decent, but divulged into cornering questions and accusations of LP being a bloody thirsty, murdering, evil human being. After the second question he gave up and laughed at him, causing the gentleman to rage quit and kick him out. I suspect we'll see a carbon copy of that here.

@HammerheadFistpunch I forgot he had written the book, I'll see if I can get a copy online and read it before Saturday. Looks very interesting.

[HammerheadFistpunch]

@rctothefuture i find my copy at the library. Might be worth looking

[ash78]

A few key points from my own opinions and research:

1. FSD is fundamentally a good idea, but would only make sense with near-100% adoption, inter-car communication, and limitations to certain roadways (which would have to be restricted to FSD-only cars). That itself is impractical in the near term.

2. Assuming we could get to FSD for an entire community, the next obvious question is how a driver can be expected to maintain their skills. Commercial pilots often rely on autopilot for over 90% of the flight, but it doesn't prevent them from the intensive regular testing required to keep their jobs.

3. Last, but not least: Liability. When FSD makes a decision that results in injury or damage, the accountability chain becomes vague. FSD in the aggregate very well might reduce "injuries per thousand miles" (or similar stat), but the individual incidents and any vagaries about accountability, programming, or AI would quickly become a huge mess and threaten to destroy FSD. The greater adoption of FSD, the quicker this will occur.

There are plenty more, like snowy or poorly-marked roads, but IMO those could eventually be overcome with better tech, so best not to bring them up too quickly.

TL;DR: Great idea on a very scaled-down basis under controlled circumstances, but will never be allowed on a widespread, unregulated basis the way driver's licenses are issued currently.

[Arch Duke Maxyenko]

@derp CNN Presents: The 2023 Ram Promaster Debate Series