An Ode to GM Engines, and the Cars That Fall Apart Around Them

[pickup_man]

Inspired by trivet's post about the dumbest things we've done to our cars, and the neglect my little Cobalt has soldiered through I was reminded of the phrase "A GM car will run poorly longer than most cars will run at all" and I began to reflect back on the number of GM vehicles in my relatively short past (after all I'm only 30) that have truly lived up to this reputation and the number of these vehicles is shockingly high. So without further adieu, here is a list of every GM vehicle in my memory that has admirably put up with neglect, abuse, and tons of use and yet refused to die.

• Dad's 80 something Olds 88. I don't remember much about this car except it being burgundy supreme inside and out. It squealed like mad and was apparently near end of life when my dad gave it to my uncle sometime in the mid 90's. He drove it for probably 5-6 more years before it started itself on fire in a parking lot.

• Dad's '91 Corsica which was quite frankly scary to drive with it's worn out suspension, sketchy brakes, and light switch which required being pulled in just the right manner otherwise the lights would go out completely. I "learned" to drive it this car, taking it into the neighboring field and thrashing it around until I got bored. It ran a little rough but always started, we traded it for an oxy/acty torch at 180k and the next owner proceeded to put at least another 50k on it.

• My high school friend's 90's? 4 cyl S10. An ex Sturdevants (like Napa/Autozone if you don't have one of those) delivery truck. The story was the odometer had been rolled over, which is doubtful, but the thing had a load of miles on it before being thoroughly abused by a teenage driver. We once drove it roughly 100 miles, 90mph, bouncing off the rev limiter the whole way. It eventually blew a head gasket which I think his dad fixed then sold the truck.

• Same friend, this time a Buick or Olds, confidently over 150k which he drove way too hard, way too fast, way too often. Only drove it for a short while. Fate unknown. Same friend also had a GMC S15 Jimmy 2 door (2nd gen) which he rolled and nearly died. Another S10 Blazer followed that one up, fate unknown.

• Different friend, '87 S10 4x4, an 18 year old truck when he got it. He had to vice grip a vacuum line or lever or something to get 4wd to engage but it still ran like a top when he sold it.

• Friend 3's '85 Squarebody, TBI 305 automatic. 5 digit ODO so likely over 200k when she bought it. She loved that truck and treated it well but it came back from the shop one day after an oil change with horrid rod knock, but obviously still ran. Shop wouldn't take ownership (which is BS cause it ran fine when it went in) and she eventually sold it.

• Friend 4's Buick LeSabre which he took up to at least 250k before just deciding to buy something nicer and newer.

• Friend 5's 90's Pontiac Bonneville, another hand me down high school beater with near or over 200k, rear ended once. Don't recall why it ended up in the trees, but I think it still ran fine, he just ended up getting a pickup and drove that.

• Same friend but an Olds 88 which he bought for $5, his goal was 300k, and he was close until the K member rusted out enough to become unsafe.

• Friends 6's Buick Park Ave, and Chevy Lumina, both respectively above 200k, I think both cars started having electrical problems before he dumped them.

• Friend 7's S10, and '00 1500, again, both above 200k before rusting apart or selling to buy something nicer.

• My wife's old Buick LeSabre, 215k, ran perfect but the security system started going on the fritz. Plus I just hated that car.

• My '89 Camaro RS, TBI 305 auto, somewhere over 215k, fired off immediately and ran like a top. Sold it because it was rusty, slow, and the trans shifted really hard.

• Work truck #1. A 95 GMC 2500, 375k+ sketchy as all getup to drive, runs great.

-Work Truck #2. '03? Chevy 2500, gasser, 6.0 I think. Last I checked 457k. Ran around for 2 years with the oil pressure light on, taped over naturally, which they eventually ended up fixing. It'll randomly start having lifter noise running down the highway, but a few high RPM pulls seems to quiet it back down and it hasn't missed a beat.

• Work truck #3, '05 Chevy 2500 Duramax. 360k+ (not shocking for a diesel, but still impressive). Surges hard at idle, steering is way off kilter and jittery/vague while going around curves, but still truckin along.

• My '06 Cobalt. My sister ran it low enough on oil to make the timing chain tensioner fail. Dad and I rebuilt it on the cheap checking zero bearings or the head in the process and I've put roughly 20,000 not kind miles on it since, it still runs like the sewing machine it is.

And those are the just the ones I remember that I think deserve special recognition. This is not to mention the four other GM vehicles my family has owned in the past, my Old's Aurora that I blew the trans in, the countless farm trucks I've been around or the dozen other GM vehicles in my high school parking belonging to people I didn't really know.

They say a GM car will run poorly longer than most cars will run at all, and I believe it.

[Highlander]

@pickup_man I drove a 1968 Buick Electra when I was a teenager. It was my moms car and I got it after it rolled down the driveway and hit a tree. I parked it when I went to college since it wasn't mine and it was not reliable in cold weather. My mom sold it to a local guy, he pulled the 430 v8 and put it into his chevy truck, didn't even rebuild it. The car was toast, lots of rust, broken shocks and shitty tires.

[trivet]

@pickup_man said in An Ode to GM Engines, and the Cars That Fall Apart Around Them:

They say a GM car will run poorly longer than most cars will run at all, and I believe it.

I beleive that of pre-2000 era GM cars. The newer ones....not so much.

Great post BTW!!!

[pickup_man]

@trivet My Cobalt is an '05, still ticking right along! I've got a few horror stories though as well, like my cousin who went through three engines in two years (under warranty thankfully) all due to bad oil pumps (not uncommon for that year of 5.3 I think.

[JeepOfTheseus]

@pickup_man I have no real experience with anything other than the GMT400 and GMT800 chassis and al I can say is: they built the hell out of those things. I’m convinced that if they can avoid rust then they can just go on forever. Also, cloth seats are far superior to leather in both of those. Ive got a ‘95 Yukon with a quarter million miles on it and a an ‘01 Suburban with over 300k. They aren’t fancy but they do work.

[pickup_man]

@jeepoftheseus I really do love the GMT400 trucks, honest, simple, rugged, durable and so damn good looking. The 800's I'm meh about, they just felt like a step backwards in quality to me, especially in the interior, but they do run forever. That work truck I mentioned is over 457,000 and while it's not perfect, it just keeps on going.

[adamftw]

@jeepoftheseus those chassis trucks and SUVs run and run and run and run and run. Small BS things "break" but never enough to stop the truck from running and driving. All the parts for them are cheap as fuck. 4L60s blow up you say? If you beat em, sure; and any novice trans tech in north or south america can rebuild one for $1500 and it'll last another 100k miles.

[Rusty Vandura]

@pickup_man said in An Ode to GM Engines, and the Cars That Fall Apart Around Them:

A GM car will run poorly longer than most cars will run at all

I thought of this old saying as soon as I saw the title of your post. I'd say the same about my '97 GMC Safari with ~240k miles, except that it runs and drives quite well. This has much to do with my performing extensive maintenance on it, much of it preventive, but still.

[Rusty Vandura]

@trivet No doubt! All of these eco-poof engines and 71-speed automatic transmissions and you need an EKG machine to change the oil.

[trivet]

@rusty-vandura said in An Ode to GM Engines, and the Cars That Fall Apart Around Them:

@trivet No doubt! All of these eco-poof engines and 71-speed automatic transmissions and you need an EKG machine to change the oil.

Me working on any modern GM engine

[derp]

once in a while, i miss my first car which was also a gm.

i also haven't owned a gm since.

[LooseonExit]

@pickup_man

The wife has had great luck with GMs, which is one reason why we two of them in the garage. I've had good luck with Mopars and Fords as well as GM, but that's another post(s). Besides the Cruze, which has been fine @ 91k, and my ZR2, which is too new to matter...

The wife had a number of hand-me down and cheap GM 80s RWD and 90-00s FWD sedans, most in the 200k+ range and a squarebody GMC Sierra with over 350k on it. Her '04 Malibu had 245k on it when we donated it to a shelter/charity. All original drivetrains.

Personally I had a 98 Camaro LS1 which I got with ~120k on it. It dyno'd over 300rwhp stock. It got abused with auto-x and track days, no issues. I've also installed GM drivetrains in lot of Jeeps and 4x4s, mostly the OG Vortec TBI stuff but also some late 70s/80s MkIV and GenV BBCs. Mostly straight from the JY or by throwing random bits together and beat on all of them with no issues. I've never even grenaded a 200R4, let alone a 700R4 which all got beat to hell in back wheeling in various Jeeps and whatnot. Stuff just works.

[WhoIsTheLeader]

8 years, almost 130,000 miles, and never skipped a beat. The trans had a little hiccup and acted up the day after I replaced the fluid, but it has been flawless since then. With the old Opel derived 1.8, this is a modern GM product that fits the old saying. There isn't very much to go wrong.

My extended family always owned Fords and a few Ford era Volvos. This was the very first GM product I can think of being familiar with besides a high school friend's absolutely thrashed Chevy Avalanche. The engineering and build quality of the car is noticeably better than the Fords I'm familiar with.

[Mark Tucker]

The thing I have always loved about GM drivetrains is that they prefer to refine an existing design, and riff on it, rather than starting over from a blank sheet of paper. Cast iron blocks and heads, pushrod valvetrains, and low-revving high-torque tuning aren'y sexy, but they are very effective and very reliable. Keep oil in them, and they'll just keep spinning.

And keeping with the old designs is what makes them so appealing to hot-rodders and tuners: they end up being like Lego sets - everything fits everything. Which also means it's cheap and easy to keep old ones running, because the same part number fits 30 years of engines.

As for the rest of the car falling apart, I'd just like to point out that I own a 32 year old Chevy truck with the "teeny tiny push button" HVAC system - and it still works perfectly. As does everything else on it. Long live the GMT400s...

[Chariotoflove]

@pickup_man said in An Ode to GM Engines, and the Cars That Fall Apart Around Them:

They say a GM car will run poorly longer than most cars will run at all, and I believe it.

In general I'm right there with you on this. Of course, there is always the exception or two. Snuze's Camero is our current poster child. My '91 Riviera is another That 3800 is the one everyone says is bomb proof, but it bombed on me in a dramatic way at at 86k miles. Not the core of the engine itself, the radiator went and caused collateral damage, but it was overall not worth saving.

[benn454]

@chariotoflove Do you mean the 3800? You really shouldn't blame the engine for the radiator failing. Even cockroaches need water.

[Chariotoflove]

@benn454 said in An Ode to GM Engines, and the Cars That Fall Apart Around Them:

@chariotoflove Do you mean the 3800? You really shouldn't blame the engine for the radiator failing. Even cockroaches need water.

Yes, typo. I'll fix it. And you're right, I allowed for that. Still, engine as good as dead in the end.

[Roadkilled]

@pickup_man I drove nothing but GM products from 1991 until 2016, but that was only two vehicles.

The first was a non-GM GM, the Saturn SL. It was a clean-slate design from an independent division of GM. I drove it 120,000 miles over 11 years before selling it. That Saturn was still running just fine. Of course, having plastic body panels kept it from rusting away around the engine.

I replaced it with a very GM car, the Saturn L200. It was a parts bin car with GM's 2.2 Ecotec L61 engine used in dozens of vehicles including Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Opel, Saturn and even one Holden. The L200 was the Epsilon platform and shared parts with the Opel Vectra and a few other GM vehicles. It was reliable basic transportation that I kept for 14 years and 140,000 miles. There was nothing other than scheduled maintenance as long as I owned it, although my mechanic was encouraging me to check the timing chain before it skipped a tooth due to stretching or wear on the guides.

[pickup_man]

@mark-tucker GM's trucks have always been a step above the rest of their vehicles, except the GMT 800 IMO, I haven't seen a single one of those that didn't have at least one thing broken in the interior, whether it's the window switch plate, or the door panel pulling away from the door, or the dash rattling like someone's got a jack hammer on it, or all of the above.

Their cars really aren't all that bad either, it's just fun to rip on GM a little. My wife's Buick actually held up great, while my 10 year newer Cobalt has a myriad of problems that it shouldn't. My experience is hit or miss, same goes for pretty much every other brand of car I've been around.

[onlytwowheels]

@pickup_man said in An Ode to GM Engines, and the Cars That Fall Apart Around Them:

GMT400 I really do love the GMT400 trucks, honest, simple, rugged, durable and so damn good looking.

I'll agree with the good looking, but the rest is highly debatable. Multiple friends have owned them. One bought his new and was meticulous about maintenance, had valve seals on the 5.7L V8 replaced multiple times by dealer before the engine blew with 88K while towing his snow mobile trailer. Another friend had one that had rear differential failure well before 100k, an oil cooler line let go while doing a dump run and an issue with tail light circuit boards having a melt down Another friend had so many interior panels cracking or falling apart he left it with me when he moved across the country and said sell it for whatever you can get.

[pickup_man]

@onlytwowheels There's bound to be some out there that have problems, in general though I've heard a lot of praise for the GMT400's, we've got one here at work with upwards of 350,000 miles on it, and as far as I'm aware there has never been a major issue with it, I know someone with a Suburban with 250,000+, and a few others who've had good luck as well.

[onlytwowheels]

@pickup_man

With GM products, it's all luck of the draw. Three coworkers with GMT800s, two with 6.0 and one with a 5.3. One with the 6.0 and the 5.3 had that annoying piston slap on startup with relatively low miles. The other 6.0 with over 300k never had it.

[100percentjake]

I have some experience here.

"Murdersofa" 2000 Buick LeSabre. 240k miles.

Front shocks blown, rear shocks replaced. A/C broken. Upgraded the sway bars. Got rid of it when I got a manual Civic.

The world's ugliest 1997 Buick Riviera (naturally aspirated) 230k miles.

Transmission shifted funny. Front shocks blown. Sold when I got my NB Miata.

2003 Park Avenue Ultra (supercharged) 220k miles. Still have this.

Basically catching it up on maintenance as well as doing a budget 320hp build on my Youtube channel. Got this for Christmas from Hoovie's Garage.

[Green Truck]

My brother blew up the engine in my 95 Silverado a couple years ago. It had 132,000 miles on it, and was running great. I'd gone up north between Christmas and plowed, then decided 0 degree weather was no fun, parked the truck, and headed home. I specifically told my brother to not drive the truck.

The next morning I received a call from my brother telling me he'd taken it into town, and now it wouldn't start. You know how some people have a feel for mechanical things? My brother isn't one of them. Long story short, he'd driven it about 12 miles in Low range at 50+ mph. He said it was loud, so he turned up the radio. I wish I was kidding. That poor little 305 never had a chance. One GM crate 305 later, it runs great again. I drive it weekly, and can't justify a new truck. Everything currently works, and there are no rattles.