This is not acceptable
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On walkabout. Back soonish.
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@just-jeepin "They knew what they signed up for"
And they've had 4 years to do something about it before it reached this point.
Time to do the right thing now.
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@just-jeepin fuckin' a. Not. Acceptable.
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@just-jeepin @just-jeepin It's incredibly scary, but they've been inciting this stuff for a while so... bummer? Do the right thing or get the fuck out of public office.
Some journalist told me about this site. Now I own three cars.
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@taylor-martin said in This is not acceptable:
but they've been inciting this stuff for a while so... bummer?
yeah, "chickens coming home to roost" and "actions have consequences" come to mind.
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@Just-Jeepin Not quite. Search “Taliban” for what a successful terrorist organization looks like.
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@dipodomysdeserti Let’s not get into reverse whataboutism.
I’ve been thinking about what to expect this year, may post my predictions. I fully expect at least one assassination attempt, a couple of bombings.
Sure, this isn’t Afghanistan or even 1960s America, but these are still terrorists, and they’re controlling how our governing bodies react to their threat. That’s not good.
On walkabout. Back soonish.
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@just-jeepin How was that whataboutism? I don’t even know what reverse whataboutism is. My bullshit meter goes into overdrive every time I hear the T word. Are some of these guys terrorists, for sure. Are they winning? Not a chance. I referenced the Taliban because they’re one of the few organizations to successfully implement terrorism to achieve their long term goals.
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@dipodomysdeserti I mean the United States of America is fairly successful. The Sons of Liberty dabbled in their fair share of terrorism to kickstart the American Revolution.
"There was terror everywhere you looked, because this was a total war. There was certainly terror among the Loyalists, starting in Massachusetts, where good loyal Americans, who were trying to do their job and uphold the British government — which was their government—were intimidated by insurgents and rebels. Those who tried to uphold law and order were tarred and feathered, their houses were gutted, and their families threatened. The Loyalists soon learned that discretion was the better part of valor. Some had to flee their homeland, their native America, and live on the frontier." Source
Kinda sounds familiar to what @Just-Jeepin posted. Less tar and feather but more physically threaten and target for primaries. I mean it's not exactly unprecedented in the histories of nations. Maybe because so many words that get tossed around until they lose their meaning. I've certainly seen "terrorism" tossed around alot lately in context I wouldn't agree works. I mean what the mob did on 1/6/21 fits the definition of terrorism. Was it one universal action as a collective? I'm not sure. There was quite a bit of different ideologies mixed in that crowd. Are they "winning"? I don't think so. But there is definitely an effort out there.
Honda Tech | WA State
04 TSX | 95 Civic | 07 Pilot -
@thebarber I purposefully avoided getting into a discussion of what constitutes terrorism to avoid any sort of Edge Lord-esque arguments (Indon’t think yours is one). In a modern context, I choose to define it as actions that specifically target civilian populations in order to spread unrest and discord among society in the hopes of destabilizing it. Were there terrorists among the US Revolutionaries? Yes. Was that how the US ultimately gained independence? No. In a modern context you could argue the pIRA were successful, but Norn Irn is still apart of the UK, so they weren’t that successful. The Taliban successfully waged a terror campaign to show Afghans that the US couldn’t bring stability, and they’ll soon have the country back.
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@dipodomysdeserti How many times in U.S. history have members of Congress been too afraid for their lives to cast an important vote?
I'd wager not often since the Civil War.
I would consider the armed invasion of the Michigan state house as the first act of the current insurrection.
Arguably the attack on the governor's mansion in Washington qualifies as another.
The 2nd definition of terrorism by the OED:
The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims; (originally) such practices used by a government or ruling group (frequently through paramilitary or informal armed groups) in order to maintain its control over a population; (now usually) such practices used by a clandestine or expatriate organization as a means of furthering its aims.
I don't see any reason not to label the Michigan attacks or 1/6 attacks as terrorism.
The "reverse whataboutism": I just found it odd to imply that the 1/6 riot wasn't an example of successful terrorism just because the Taliban were much more effective. Usually a "what about" argument refers to something less, or roughly equally, egregious.
On walkabout. Back soonish.
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@dipodomysdeserti Apologies. I was just spurring discussion. I agree that the Taliban have been successful. From the freedom fighter days when we sponsoring them to the terroristic days of now they have slowly been consolidating power and now we are forced as a nation to recognize their legitimacy.
Anyway, domestically speaking I think the definition under 18 U.S. Code § 2331 fits pretty well
(B)appear to be intended—
(i)to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii)to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii)to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C)occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;Unfortunately there is no Federal criminal offense designated as domestic terrorism. Yet.
Honda Tech | WA State
04 TSX | 95 Civic | 07 Pilot -
@just-jeepin Ehhhh I'm not so sure about calling what happened in Olympia an attack on the Governor's mansion. That immediately drew comparisons in my mind to the Mark and Patricia McCloskey incident in St. Louis. Protesters broke down a gate and trespassed on private property. All that was missing was Jay and Trudi on the front steps pointing guns at the protesters. I don't think what occurred was truly up to the standards raised by the Michigan kidnap plot and the 1/6/21 attack. I work in west Olympia and was at work that day. I had a co-worker even remark that he was gonna stop by there and "fuck up Inslees lawn" on his way home. Not exactly the revolution promised. This more on the level of what happened here over the summer at the Mayor of Seattle's house and the Mayor of Portland's from the other end of the political spectrum. Protesters trespassed and vandalized their homes.
Apologies for my idiot co-worker, my industry attracts a certain demographic.
Honda Tech | WA State
04 TSX | 95 Civic | 07 Pilot -
@thebarber said in This is not acceptable:
now they have slowly been consolidating power and now we are forced as a nation to recognize their legitimacy
They were of course firmly in control prior to 9/11. The US didn't officially recognize them I don't think, and closed the Afghan embassy in Washington, but W did issue them an ultimatum, and we did consider Taliban soldiers different than other fighters in Afghanistan, so obviously we did consider them the defacto government.
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@thebarber Jay and Trudi probably would have held their weapons better than the deplorable McCloskeys.
The mayor of the largest city in the state of Misery deserved to have some massive protests in front of her door for the ridiculous doxxing she perpetrated, too. That action seems to have been ignored by a lot of media. Also the state that produced Hawley - suddenly WA looks pretty damn good!
Something I've thought about, I wonder how many of the dipshits involved in the insurrection (not a mob or riot or demonstration) last week will be there next week. Seems more than a few of those so far caught have been able to bond/bail out. I'd love to see an investigation of the sources of money used to get these guys out of custody, and how they all got to DC to begin with. Someone's paying for a lot of them.
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@fintail I’ve not seen the details on this, but reportedly Justice Clarence Thomas’s wife paid for some of the travel expenses.
This is a very, very strange story in addition to being appalling and shocking and despicable all around.
On walkabout. Back soonish.
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@just-jeepin I never said they weren’t terrorists, I said they weren’t very successful terrorists. The Taliban (and their Muj predecessors) defeated two super powers within the span of forty years. That’s why I used them as an example.
Also, I wouldn’t use the MI plotters as an example of Trump inspired terrorism. A few of those mouth breathers hated Trump and thought he was a despot. Not all terrorists believe the same stuff. Jesus christ this feels like 2001.
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@thebarber You’d have half the major PD’s along with DHS in federal lockup if we had a domestic terrorism on the books.
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@just-jeepin Snopes rates that as fake news
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@dipodomysdeserti Bah, forgot the first part. "(A)involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;"
Make a little exception for LEA and boom, done.
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@fintail I'm sure they could control their weapons better. The bar is set pretty damn low.
I agree the protesters needed to call her out on her doxxing. That is a horrible thing for a person in power to do.
I'm sure you'll see a few repeaters. I'm sure they'd get scooped back up pretty quick though. I'm sure they'd violate some terms of release and I don't think the LEO's will be making the same mistakes again so soon. I'm too am curious where the investigations will lead. It'll take some time. I've heard that DOJ has some pretty impressive teams put together that I'm sure will get even better with the new Admin. Hell, just the amount of charges and post-event arrests are pretty impressive thus far. There's a lot of stories floating out there right now about who was involved in what. But the vast majority of them seem just that. Stories. We start believing the rumors then we become no better than those that were beating on the doors of the capitol.
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@dipodomysdeserti aha, thanks for the link
