tracking (and tracking down) the rioters

[davesaddiction]

In addition to facial recognition software, this:

Anyone who entered the building who doesn't hold a legit press pass (or can't clearly document that was their intent for following rioters in) will hopefully be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law... No excuses.

Any dumbass "lookie-loo" who was there in the crowd and went in after the rioters "just to watch" better contact law enforcement NOW before they come looking and share any evidence they might have if they want any chance of getting off with a slap on the wrist...

[BaconSandwich]

@davesaddiction would it be possible for a mobile phone to connect to that internal cell while still being physically outside the building? Not trying to defend them, but if that were the case, that might be enough to provide "reasonable doubt" in court.

[facw]

@davesaddiction That statement doesn't really sound like someone who knows what they are talking about. But it's not wrong in the sense that even outside of the capital, cell phone carriers log everything touching their towers, which means it's easy, if sometimes constitutionally suspect, to get a "geofence warrant" telling the carriers to provide a list of all phones that were within a given area at a given time. If the Capitol has this data already it then maybe they can skip the warrant, but they can get the data regardless (and surely already have).

On the license plate reader front, there's no way they made the change right after 9/11, the tech wasn't there. A quick look says the district started installing readers in 2009. It's not clear they are capturing every car in or out, but it's certainly possible at this point. Virginia reportedly captured every car going to the District for Obama's inauguration in 2008 , though that's a much easier task, since there are only a half a dozen bridges to watch vs. dozens of roads crossing the border with Maryland.

[davesaddiction]

@baconsandwich Perhaps, but they were also trespassing on the steps. So if it can be proven that a cell phone could not connect to the internal network at a distance they were legally allowed to gather, that should be sufficient.

[facw]

@baconsandwich Sure, but carriers collect much finer grained information than just which tower a device was connected to. They can triangulate position based on signal strength at multiple towers, and may be having the device report its position for their own use.

[davesaddiction]

@facw

WaPo:

Authorities looking to prosecute the mob of Trump supporters who overran the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday stand to get powerful help from cellphone records, facial recognition tools and other technologies to assist in the identification of anyone who was there that day.

The Capitol, more than most buildings, has a vast cellular and wireless data infrastructure of its own to make communications efficient in a building made largely of stone and that extends deep underground and has pockets of shielded areas. Such infrastructure, such as individual cell towers, can turn any connected phone into its own tracking device.

Phone records make determining the owners of these devices trivially easy. Congressional investigators and federal prosecutors can also identify devices and users who may have connected wittingly or automatically to congressional guest WiFi networks — unless rioters made a point of deactivating their devices or leaving them behind during the takeover.

[facw]

@davesaddiction Which is fine, but also completely irrelevant, because they could get that same cell phone information from the carriers without any significant difficulty. Playing it up as something special at the Capitol greatly understates both government and corporate surveillance capability.

[davesaddiction]

@facw The point is, triangulation from cell towers only gets you to a 3/4 (square) mile area (too large). But routing through the internal cell and WiFi networks (within the thick stone walls) may be able to give irrefutable proof that someone was inside the building (or close enough that they were trespassing), even if a person was wearing enough to completely hide their identity from cameras (granted - those smart enough to hide their face may also have been smart enough to leave their cell phone behind...).

[facw]

@davesaddiction That number is highly outdated. You can easily get much more accurate position info (especially in a high density cell area like DC). And even that is besides the point, if the phones are reporting their location to the carrier.

[davesaddiction]

@facw Good point on more accurate position with more density. What percentage of modern phones have "real" GPS included now? Almost all of them?

If most phones are reporting actual, precise GPS location to their providers at all times, why is 911 response still a challenge in some cases? (like the guy that was saved from his car in the snowplow drift)

[ForSweden]

Things to be disappointed with:

• Riots
• People cheering the use of mass surveillance
• Visiting Kinja

[davesaddiction]

@forsweden

Man, old habits die freaking hard... I tried to load KinjOPPO yesterday!

And I still go over to Jalopnik every couple days to try to support Torch, David, Mercedes, etc., but have added a "@ opposite-lock.com" suffix to my screen name, hopefully will catch some old OPPO lurkers or inquisitive folks to head over here to take a look.

[facw]

@davesaddiction Yeah I don't know the percentage of phones with real GPS these days, but it seems like it has to be quite high. I think with 911 response, you have a combination of GPS not working in all environments (since the signals are pretty easily blocked), and outdated technology that's designed for the maximum accuracy that seemed reasonable 15 years ago when most phones had more limited tracking capabilities, rather than what we could do today. Sounds like 911 dispatchers often get tracking to within 100ft (sometimes much lower), but they can be worse (if things go wrong they get only the nearest tower location, which as you can imagine is often quite awful), and while 100ft might be good enough to identify a suburban home, it still can cover dozens of apartments and the like.

[davesaddiction]

@facw

*Kresen drove into a ditch around midnight and called 911 through the wee hours of Thursday but had trouble connecting. The vehicle became completely disabled, authorities said, leaving Kresen without heat.

"He finally got through a few times and was geolocated, but not very well because of the spottiness of the reception," Cawley said.

First responders narrowed the call to a 3-mile (5-kilometer) stretch along the Susquehanna River in Owego, outside Binghamton, which got over 40 inches (101 centimeters) of snow in the storm. The storm covered Kresen's Ford Fusion in snow, and at least one plow passed by as he remained trapped.*

[DipodomysDeserti]

@davesaddiction You're telling me they don't need to implant trackers via vaccines to keep tabs on people? Fake news.

[DipodomysDeserti]

@forsweden Yeah, it's funny how many people are suddenly pro cop, mass surveillance, extra judicial prosecutions and death penalty now that people they don't like got caught doing stupid things.

[CobraJoe]

@dipodomysdeserti I don't really think that most "anti-cop" people were really "anti-cop". Instead, I think they are "anti-letting people get away with crime just because they are a cop".

The truth is always harder to chant.

Using every legal means to identify the people in this riot is absolutely in line with the "anti-letting people get a way with crime just because they are _____" type of thinking.

[ForSweden]

@dipodomysdeserti just follow these rules and everything will make sense

[DipodomysDeserti]

@cobrajoe I agree, but there seemed to be a consensus that shooting unarmed people was bad, even if they were committing a crime while being shot.

[CobraJoe]

@dipodomysdeserti The term "excessive force" comes to mind...

I could write an essay, but TLDR version: Unless someone is in immediate danger, criminals should always see the inside of a courtroom instead.

Blindly trusting the cops to be "the good guys" and the criminals to be "deserving what they get" is a recipe for abuse of power.