Daily Camero Bullshittery - The Drama Continues

[Snuze]

Well, the Camaro is truly fucked. My spark plug wire theory is bunk. It's a valve spring.

There is a TSB out there for a known issue, GM received a bad batch of valve springs (improper heat treatment) and they were used in engines installed in vehicles built between mid-June and early October of this year. The dealer didn't do a full tear down, but as far as they could tell, they don't think it was a valve spring in the first engine. But it's definitely one in this engine. GM's fix is to replace all 16 valve springs with ones from a new batch that do not have this heat treatment issue.

But you know what? Fuck all that. I'm pissed. I was willing to give them a pass on the first engine. It sucked, I wasn't happy about it, but I'm also an engineer and I have some understanding of the realities of mass production. You can't possibly catch every single part that's out of spec, verify every single tolerance, or every assembly step. Not without being absurdly cost prohibitive. So I get that.

But to send me a replacement engine with a known problem? Really?

I've been doing some reading, and let me tell you, it pays to actually read laws. In the Commonwealth of Virginia, there are multiple things that can trigger a lemon law - repairing the same issue 3 times and greater than 30 cumulative days in the shop in on year are the two big ones. However, there is another item, and that is, well, I'll just copy paste from the actual legislation:

"Serious safety defect" means a life-threatening malfunction or nonconformity that impedes the consumer's ability to control or operate the new motor vehicle for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes or creates a risk of fire or explosion.

I don't know about you, but I consider not having a working engine to be a serious safety defect. One attempt to repair a "serious safety defect" is all thats required to proceed with a lemon law claim in the state.

So the next issue is, lemon laws are civil affairs, not criminal, so it's up to the consumer to initiate it. It's also filed against the manufacturer, not the dealer, so it becomes me against GM.
The Better Business Bureau has a program called "Auto Line", it's basically an arbitration program to help consumers and auto manufacturers reconcile and stay out of legal proceedings. I think that's the route as I would pursue.

The next thing is, under the lemon law I am entitled to replacement with a "substantially similar" vehicle or a refund of my purchase value, although the manufacturer can claim some depreciation, but all that would be hammered out in arbitration.

It's a shame, really. It's an awesome fucking car, it's really everything I thought it would be and more. I've been privileged to get to drive some really fun and really nice cars and this one is definitely up near if not at the top of the list. So I guess I would need to decide if I want to roll the dice on another Camaro, or take the money and run. It's honestly tough, because the car really is that freaking good. I also don't have a lot of faith that any other manufacturers, at least any that make cars that I both like and can afford, are significantly better.

Oh, and the best part is I have lots of time to sit here and think and weigh my options. It's not like I need to kick this off ASAP because I have a 7 AM flight tomorrow to Japan for the next 32 days... This is the kind of shit that makes me want to buy a Corolla.

[CB]

@snuze Jesus dude, that's brutal. At this point I don't think there's any manufacturer that can reliably make a fun car.

[Rykros the Disdainful]

@snuze Is an ATS-V an option? It is, after all, an Alpha car all the same. But better visibility

[liam]

@snuze In many states the Lemon Law allows for lawyer fees to be claimed - so Lemon Law lawyers do the work on contingency.

[ClassicDatsunDebate]

@snuze Or you could let them replace the springs and go on with life. The Lemon Law route sounds painful.
Have you tried speaking with the regional GM dealer manager? Maybe speaking to someone directly at GM and explaining the situation might shake loose someone to shake loose some 'good will' contingency or something.

[davesaddiction]

@snuze Ugh... try to forget about it for a while (but make sure to document the day they let you know it's ready to be picked up, in your absence). Good luck with the future lemon process.

Excited to live vicariously through you as you (hopefully) get to explore Japan and share your experiences!

[ItalianJobR53]

@snuze aah man, that sucks....
Hate GM for making fun cars that are affordable and then fucking up such shit...maybe its affordable coz they do such bs, who knows
At least this time they have a TSB for the valve springs tho, they never did anything for the LS6...

[Highlander]

@snuze Dodge Challenger Scat pack.

[HoustonRunner]

@snuze That really blows, I was prepared to live even more vicariously through your Camaro shenanigans. I completely understand the travel deadline dilemma as well, I'm in consulting and have traveled for work for about half my career. Honestly, if it were me in this scenario, I'd probably be done with any Camaro for a long time.
On the flip side, I hope you have a safe trip to Japan!

[Snuze]

@classicdatsundebate I just reached out to a contact I have at GM. I didn't do this initially because it's a bit outside of his wheelhouse, and I wanted to give my dealer (who has still been top notch throughout this process) and GM the opportunity to make it right. But I reached out this afternoon and explained my situation and you know what the first thing he said was?

Initiate a buy back.

[Jordan]

@classicdatsundebate Lemon Law is pretty easy to deal with, at least in SC it was. No lawyer needed. Just complain early, document everything, and make a claim when their time is up.

[SilentbutnotreallyDeadly]

@snuze said in Daily Camero Bullshittery - The Drama Continues:

@classicdatsundebate I just reached out to a contact I have at GM. I...explained my situation and you know what the first thing he said was?

Initiate a buy back.

Now THAT...is brutal.

[Chariotoflove]

@snuze

I hope that whichever way you go, it gets you to where you want to be with the least pain and expense.

I get that you're pissed, but it's worth considering whether getting a new engine with the new valves through will bring you out the other side to a reliable car that you love to drive. If that isn't the path to what you want, then absolutely go to battle. I just hope your path to victory would be clear.

I'm pissed on your behalf that this is happening to you.

[A Former User]

All that arbitration stuff assumes they challenge it. Start with the demand to the dealer (I know it's GM ultimately, but the dealer has some input typically) and ask them who to send to at GM. Then send to GM. Include a reasonable deadline for a response. Describe how reasonable you have been throughout the process, and declare your patience to be at an end. Then cross fingers.

[RallyDarkstrike]

@snuze That really sucks man....with GM's track record though, I sortof thought it might come to something ridiculous like this

I feel for ya.....at least you have plenty of time to find a replacement...?

What was that fellow's name that posted on Jalopnik a lot about such Lemon Law things...? Maybe you could email him? He was always really helpful to Oppos and Jalops on that topic!!!

[Snuze]

@rallydarkstrike Dave Lehto. I follow him on YouTube.

I've been giving it some more thought and I'm going to hold off on doing anything tonight. I have a 2.5 hour layover in Chicago tomorrow. I'm going to make some phone calls and get some things sorted out.

At this point my main concern is I just want the bullshit to be over. Get it fixed and get it fixed right. I'm going to talk with my service advisor tomorrow as to what mitigating steps they are going to take. I'm not sure if the failure was on an intake or exhaust valve. If it was on the intake, they need to pull the manifold and inspect it. Regardless, of valve they need to bore scope the affected cylinder(s) to make sure there was no damage to the piston. If those 2 things are good, then I'm willing to call it good to go.

I still have the balance of the warranty on it, and you better believe that when (if?) I ever make it past the break in point and do all the proper break in services (I'm following the GM Performance Track Break-In procedure as close as humanly possible), I'm going to romp on this thing hard and if there are any flaws, I think they will manifest themselves quickly. But I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

[Jawzx2]

@snuze have you considered an Alfa Giulia? It might be more reliable....

[spacekraken]

@snuze Ah that sucks. I almost lemon'd a car last year but ended up just selling it to the dealer and breaking even (long story). Hope it gets resolved ok. If not, hopefully the GR corolla shows up so you can buy one that has a bit of power and some fun AWD

[Old Busted Hotness]

Damn, that sucks. What sucks more is that GM hasn't got any better since I said "enough of this BS" back in 2005.

[Shop-Teacher]

Gadamn it Skeeter.

[SilentbutnotreallyDeadly]

@jawzx2 said in Daily Camero Bullshittery - The Drama Continues:

@snuze have you considered an Alfa Giulia? It might be more reliable....

You are an evil but funny man. Wanna buy a lightly used mower?

[Jawzx2]

@silentbutnotreallydeadly said in Daily Camero Bullshittery - The Drama Continues:

@jawzx2 said in Daily Camero Bullshittery - The Drama Continues:

@snuze have you considered an Alfa Giulia? It might be more reliable....

You are an evil but funny man. Wanna buy a lightly used mower?

The shipping from OZ is probably prohibitive...

[atfsgeoff]

@snuze I would humbly suggest you give them one more try to resolve it by replacing the valve springs, ONLY since it's such a good car otherwise. It would fit with your schedule too since you'll be out of the country for an entire month, so that gives them an entire month to make sure the car is properly repaired. This would be major strike 2, and if it doesn't make the car function properly, then you'll have all the more ammunition for a lemon law case.

[way2blu]

@snuze Like @atfsgeoff and others have said, getting the valve springs redone and seeing if it holds up might be the best course of action.

I’ve had my 2.0T 1LE for over 20,000 miles and many autocrosses with zero problems. Yours is likely to be reliable after the valve springs are done, with lots of fun driving ahead.

[pip bip]

@snuze demand a replacement car, like for like.