How did Pence end up doing the right thing?
-
This whole thing still sickens me 1.5 years later.And you may ask yourself, "Where does that highway go to?"
-
Sadly, far too few were/are sickened by it, and far too many are still working to minimize what happened that day, and leading up to it.
manual . RWD . LS3 . MagneRide . Brembos ... 4 doors + 5 seatbelts
-
@Highlander I can't believe people still think the election was stolen. Meanwhile this is the front runner for the Republican candidate for Governor in Michigan.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/09/fbi-raids-home-of-michigan-gop-gubernatorial-candidate.html -
@Highlander Those Secret Service agents showed a whole lot of restraint. Good on them and Pence for making solid decisions that day.
-
@davesaddiction said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
Sadly, far too few were/are sickened by it, and far too many are still working to minimize what happened that day, and leading up to it.
I think it depends on which "it" you're talking about. There are lot of "its" to that day.
- There's the protest, in which tens of thousands of people marched. That was distinctly American and understanding that brings us closer together as a country.
- There's the breach of the US capitol, supposedly one of the most secure locations on Earth, by a bunch of yahoos in costume. Not nearly enough questions have been answered about how that happened.
- There's the reaction by the Senate, which I find absolutely disgusting, to brand all protestors (not just the guys in costume) as Nazi's.
When I remember back to the live broadcast of the protest, I remember thinking "man, whether there was funny business or not, I love that a protest like this can happen here and that congress will at least take it seriously". Then came footage of people breaking into the building and it became clear that no matter what, they would denounce all tens of thousands of people and further divide the country. The actions of a few were used to create division among millions.
Then there's this whole disappointing political "Jan 6 Committee" thing whether they hired a former TV producer and decided to hold things in Prime Time like some kind of spectacle. It's just a thinly veiled ploy ahead of midterms.
Exomotive Exocet and 1991 Mazda Miata (1.8 swap)
Former: F-Type, Lancer-R -
If you were not sickened by the actions of thousands of people that day (anyone who disobeyed police and/or went past the Capitol steps), and by our previous president to egg them on, I don’t know what to tell you…
Anyone in the media who minimizes this, and any candidate for elected office who does not admit the shamefulness of this day, or continues to talk about a stolen election when that’s clearly a lie, should be ashamed to call themselves an American.
These hearings are happening because what happened on & before Jan. 6th can not be forgotten, and can not be allowed to happen again.
If you believe the protesters were justified in their actions, I regret to inform you that you’ve been brainwashed.
Trump lost, period.
manual . RWD . LS3 . MagneRide . Brembos ... 4 doors + 5 seatbelts
-
@Highlander I'll say this about Pence - I don't support his backwards hardline social conservatism, but he's never appeared to have gone down the Q/conspiracy shitbag route, and generally has conducted himself in a respectable manner. These days, that's worthy of praise, I suppose. Really shows how he was the one to lure in the old school conservatives, while 45 was there to lure in the contrarians and the wackos. Can't wait to see what 2024 brings us.
-
@nickhasanexocet
You mean the protest brought forth by a big lie with no hard material data behind it? I like to think big lies are very un-American, but these days I guess anything goes. I mean, wokeness, CRT, BLM, antifa, people who arent waspy straight males having rights, communism, socialism, insurrection, it is all the same. Big lies in the real world only bring some people closer together, as a country, a big lie creates division, as many are sharp enough to see the big lie for what it is - a big lie.Now we can deflect responsibility of those big lie enthusiasts who stormed the seat of government at the behest of the propagators of a big lie wishing for insurrection to the building itself, rather than personal responsibility for those who preach personal responsibility but seldom seem to practice it. Seems on point.
The protesters should be branded as dupes, for falling for a big lie (although plenty of fascists and fascist-adjacents who gleefully lick the boots of a wannabe tough guy who has never worked a day in his life were in the crowd). Sure am glad nobody in my family traveled to DC to demonstrate their support of the big lie and the brave heroes who built it and spread it!
The big lie, and the corrupt turds who preach the big lie, are what in reality is creating division among millions.
-
@fintail said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
You mean the protest brought forth by a big lie with no hard material data behind it?
That's a very reductionist view. The things that made people angry enough to go protest were a shrinking of the middle class and other problems that still exist (have gotten worse) and fearing that the election had been tampered with was just the straw that broke that camel's back. Like I said before, had people not entered the Capitol, they would have had to take those things more seriously.
I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post as it's exactly the kind of divisive talk that is fucking up our country.
@davesaddiction said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
If you were not sickened by the actions of thousands of people that day (anyone who disobeyed police and/or went past the Capitol steps), and by our previous president to egg them on, I don’t know what to tell you…
It's not a black and white situation. You can be disgusted by people breaking and entering (I am) but also support the tens of thousands of law abiding people who turned around and went home.
@davesaddiction said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
Anyone in the media who minimizes this, and any candidate for elected office who does not admit the shamefulness of this day, or continues to talk about a stolen election when that’s clearly a lie, should be ashamed to call themselves an American.
Divisive and over the top emotional speech that is not helpful. The first step towards recovery is admitting you have a problem. What I fear is that without someone going the 12 steps to the country back together, some yahoo is going to kick off a civil war. Despite what history books say (written by the victor), it takes two to tango. So until you embrace "the other side" and internalize why they feel they way they do, there will be no reconciliation (which is what we desperately need). The moment people start looking at someone else's opinion and thinking "it would just be easier if they were dead", then it's all over.
@davesaddiction said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
These hearings are happening because what happened on & before Jan. 6th can not be forgotten, and can not be allowed to happen again.
That's a nice lift from the public relations / marketing people in the DNC. The problem with that statement is that it's faux-uniting. There's what they are saying and why they are saying it - which are separate.
Exomotive Exocet and 1991 Mazda Miata (1.8 swap)
Former: F-Type, Lancer-R -
fearing that the election had been tampered with
Because they'd been lied to, repeatedly, by their President and his mouthpieces.
Trump, and many others, called it the "Stop the Steal" rally. To say that people were there for other reasons is disingenuous, regardless of any underlying frustrations they may have had.
State and federal judges dismissed more than 50 lawsuits presented by then President Donald Trump and his allies challenging the election or its outcome.
-
@nickhasanexocet said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
Just bolding my own quote that you referenced, for clarity:
Anyone in the media who minimizes this, and any candidate for elected office who does not admit the shamefulness of this day, or continues to talk about a stolen election when that’s clearly a lie, should be ashamed to call themselves an American.
They know they're lying, and continue to lie, because it either lines their pockets, or keeps them (or might get them) in power.
The problem with that statement is that it's faux-uniting.
If more elected Republicans had a spine, and cared more for our country than themselves or their party, and rightfully voted to impeach Trump after Jan. 6th, we wouldn't be having these current hearings.
They're only happening because people in Trump's party have worked so hard to minimize what happened and tried to quickly move on without actually addressing what happened.
Blame them.
-
@nickhasanexocet
The middle/working class has been under attack for 40+ years, hastened by trickle down insanity, the withering ideal of a social contract, and deconstructivism. The protests and ensuing insurrection attempt was not brought forth by this decline, it was brought forth by a populist messiah preaching "stop the steal" and encouraging/brainwashing millions into seeing something that simply does not exist. If the declining lot of the average American was the key issue, more protests would have been occurring for years. TEM syndrome prevents much of that.The inability of some such as yourself to call the big lie out as a big lie is much more problematic for the nation than not being sympathetic for those who continue to embrace the big lie and the tenets of its movement. Don't respond, it speaks volumes. The big lie and notions attached to it are what is "fucking up our country". Tell me more how the insurrection attempt was really the fault of lefties not conforming to far right norms.
-
@nickhasanexocet These same protests were happening in Arizona the day of the election until after January 6th. They weren’t protesting about the shrinking middle class, they were screaming about conspiracy theories. I know, because I actually went and saw them. It was a pretty obvious marketing campaign by Trump to keep those donations flooding in. The Cyber Ninjas got to cash in on the grift as well. Trump is a connected east coast conman who figured out the greatest grift of all time. You’re a mark if you think any of this was earnest political discourse.
-
@DipodomysDeserti @fintail @davesaddiction
Jesus fucking Christ, seeing all these replies to Nick, it makes me wonder if he's really gone down the Q hole. (For the record, he's on the block list for me. So I don't know what exactly he said, and I don't care to know because I've had enough of his nonsense.)
Is it appropriate for anyone to be tolerating this kind of madness? Even here, on Oppo?
There's a limit to tolerance, especially when in regards to dealing with intolerance. (The paradox of tolerance.)
I'm saying it's OK to be a conservative. But in my eyes, it is not okay to be a conservative that is perfectly okay with encouraging the Big Lie and continuing to deliberately undermine the foundations of this nation, while willfully ignoring the actual truth of their actions.
There is a limit to the madness that should be allowed on any forum.
-
@davesaddiction said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
If you were not sickened by the actions of thousands of people that day (anyone who disobeyed police and/or went past the Capitol steps), and by our previous president to egg them on, I don’t know what to tell you…
Anyone in the media who minimizes this, and any candidate for elected office who does not admit the shamefulness of this day, or continues to talk about a stolen election when that’s clearly a lie, should be ashamed to call themselves an American.
These hearings are happening because what happened on & before Jan. 6th can not be forgotten, and can not be allowed to happen again.
If you believe the protesters were justified in their actions, I regret to inform you that you’ve been brainwashed.
Trump lost, period.
Fortunately there is plenty of justice being served on this. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
If they've got the goods on Trump and his administration aiding and abetting it then they need some justice too.
I see a lot of hypocrisy in the Democrats though. They should be held accountable for the violence they encouraged in the BLM riots.
Protests are certainly part of free speech. Violence, and any encouragement of it by political leaders should be dealt with though. There has been plenty of recent inflammatory language from Democrats on the leaked supreme court Roe v Wade draft. Should they be held accountable for an assassin showing up at a Supreme Court Justices house?
-
@NKato I obviously didn’t agree with what Nick said, but it’s not cool to block someone while still commenting about what you think they said. Either block and ignore, or engage. Doing both is pretty passive aggressive. Or you could still read his stuff and not engage. I think it’s good to have different POVs, even if I don’t agree with them, and that sort of behavior is sure to chase people away from here. I know some of you guys want that, but a lot of us don’t. Just block and ignore if someone gets you that wound up.
-
Yeah, what @DipodomysDeserti said.
Making a comment like that without even knowing what he wrote is not okay.
Contentious, even heated, debate is welcome here, and people will disagree, sometimes to the point that they can’t even understand where the other person is coming from, but as long as the discussion remains civil, without personal attacks, anyone’s allowed to share their point of view.
manual . RWD . LS3 . MagneRide . Brembos ... 4 doors + 5 seatbelts
-
Definitely agree that it’s unacceptable for any politician to encourage and/or not condemn violence by protesters, regardless of the cause.
That said, for understanding, we can take also take guidance from Dr. King’s “riot is the language of the unheard” speech, in its full context, in certain cases.
-
@NKato Respond to people directly. Sometimes the response is worth it! You can also take silence to a well-crafted rebuttal as a passive admission of a checkmate.
I do think there's maybe a little too much conspiracy/disinfo at times - if people want to claim the election fraud movement is valid, they need to put up with the data or shut up. If they fail to do so, they end up looking about as credible as Mike Lindell.
-
@john-norris
Sadly, a lot of slaps on the wrist so far, and you can bet everything you own that when we get the next far right POTUS, all of those minions will be pardoned. If the orange foreign asset wins again, he'll probably give them all the Congressional Medal of HonorI think the 2020 riots might be kind of apples to insurrectionists. Storming the seat of government at the behest of lie-based conspiracy and "stop the steal" deplorable politicos and supporting the murder of those who don't fall in line with the far reich worldview (including the VP) is different from stealing a bunch of shoes from Macys, at least in my eyes. Whataboutism. Of course, the looters and vandals should be punished, and at least in my region, I know many were apprehended.
The party and people who preach personal responsibility never take it themselves, but sure like to bestow it on others. That's the ultimate hypocrisy. If the US devolves into a theocratic hellhole starting with a RvW repeal, things won't get better. But from the movement who preaches the value of life but doesn't give two shits about it once it leaves the womb, I expect it. I'd love to see the words that could be argued to encourage an assassin. Maybe AOC told him to stand back and stand by.
-
@davesaddiction said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
Making a comment like that without even knowing what he wrote is not okay.
You're right, but there's a very good reason why I have him blocked.
It's because every time I see him talking in Oppolitics, and I reply, I end up getting warned by the mods for it.
I'm tired of it. So I just block people who have shown a pattern of this targeted, provocative behavior and avoid engaging with them directly. I cannot trust myself to not lose patience with those sorts of shenanigans (especially after tolerating it in Oppo Discord for years). Especially since it seems almost universal across the internet that moderators and administrators tend to focus on the people reacting, rather than the ones provoking. (This is, unfortunately, an ironic dichotomy of the present state of affairs in America.)
It's extremely exhausting and the very reason why I have Nick blocked. Don't convince me to "respond to him directly" when it could very likely result in a ban.
Tagging in @davesaddiction @fintail since they're relevant to the conversation.
-
@Highlander
In response to the original question: “I didn’t vote for (George W.) Bush, but he was a good, honorable man with whom I had political differences, so I didn’t vote for him. But for our country to be where we are now, who took a guy who -- I don’t care what anyone says, I’m sure they have other reasons and maybe good reasons for voting for Donald Trump -- but I don’t think anybody can deny this guy is openly and brazenly racist and misogynistic and ethnic-centric, and say, ‘That’s OK with us, we’re going to vote for him anyway.'" Stan Van Gundy (NBA Coach) Speech after Trump won in 2016.Pretty much sums it up, I might greatly disagree with Pence on policy, but I am fairly certain he thinks he is trying to do what is best for the country and values democracy and the Constitution.
-
No problem with blocking someone that you realize that you aren’t able to converse with without getting terribly frustrated; that’s just a smart mental health move (there are definitely some in my life I just don’t start down certain paths with, because I know where we’ll end up).
But because you’ve made the choice (to disengage with a user), you also aren’t in a place to make a judgement on what you think this user said.
If you see other users getting into a discussion/argument with a user you’ve previously blocked, it’s probably best just to move on to another thread.
manual . RWD . LS3 . MagneRide . Brembos ... 4 doors + 5 seatbelts
-
@davesaddiction said in How did Pence end up doing the right thing?:
No problem with blocking someone that you realize that you aren’t able to converse with without getting terribly frustrated; that’s just a smart mental health move (there are definitely some in my life I just don’t start down certain paths with, because I know where we’ll end up).
But because you’ve made the choice (to disengage with a user), you also aren’t in a place to make a judgement on what you think this user said.
If you see other users getting into a discussion/argument with a user you’ve previously blocked, it’s probably best just to move on to another thread.
You're right, but when you're seeing multiple users responding to the same individual, it makes you wonder what in the actual hell he said. Was it the same kind of nonsense, or is it a different perspective worth listening to?
Ultimately, as it appears to be the same kind of nonsense, I can't conclude it was the latter.
The point of my original post was to indicate that this seems to be a recurring theme with him, and despite getting all that pushback, he continues it. This calls into question whether his statements are truly constructive, or just baiting.
-
I have a very small number of users blocked, but in this scenario, I may choose to unblock just to see what was actually posted. In this case, I have the same user blocked, but I temporarily unblocked him to see that he actually made a very small number of posts (perhaps only 1), which garnered a large number of replies.
