Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete

[ttyymmnn]

Democrats have won both seats in GA, and now control the entire Federal government.

[jminer]

@ttyymmnn controls is a very strong word for the extremely limited grasp of power that the democrats have. It's better than leaving Mitch in charge, but I'm a pessimist at this point and still don't think any meaningful change will happen. Any major piece of legislature still will require 60 votes in the senate so outside of the confirming presidential nominees (which is important) we'll still be stuck getting nothing done.

[Chariotoflove]

I prefer a divided government, so this is a bad thing in my mind. I am pleased, however, that long term, Donald Trump will not be guiding the Republican Party.

[fintail]

@ttyymmnn the cowardly little dope was right after all:

[Just Jeepin']

@chariotoflove said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

I prefer a divided government, so this is a bad thing in my mind. I am pleased, however, that long term, Donald Trump will not be guiding the Republican Party.

I'm not opposed to a division when both parties are dominated by principled public servants who recognize the necessity of governing.

The GOP has abandoned all pretense at governing, and now wants to win at all costs. This has been evident for years.

[ttyymmnn]

@fintail said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@ttyymmnn the cowardly little dope was right after all:

Nah, fuck that guy. He was all "NO TRUMP!" during the election, but he was one of the first in line to kiss his ring and his ass. It's too late for these bastards.

[Chariotoflove]

@just-jeepin said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

I prefer a divided government, so this is a bad thing in my mind. I am pleased, however, that long term, Donald Trump will not be guiding the Republican Party.

I'm not opposed to a division when both parties are dominated by principled public servants who recognize the necessity of governing.

The GOP has abandoned all pretense at governing, and now wants to win at all costs. This has been evident for years.

Two things. First, no party composed of so many people from so many diverse backgrounds can be lumped together so easily. Both sides have many people who truly work for the good of the country, but come at it from different directions. Second, the Dem party leadership has been equally consumed by a win at all costs mentality for just as long. Embracing this "my team is the good guys and their team is the bad guys" mentality will continue to be the bane of this country's political system.

[Just Jeepin']

@chariotoflove One party has:

• Embraced voter suppression
• Been demonstrably overzealous at gerrymandering
• Embraced and supported a demonstrably authoritarian politician who is currently burning down the government

I'm not going to play "both sides" with this.

[jminer]

@just-jeepin said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove One party has:

• Embraced voter suppression
• Been demonstrably overzealous at gerrymandering
• Embraced and supported a demonstrably authoritarian politician who is currently burning down the government

I'm not going to play "both sides" with this.

Not to mention the mass persecution of legal immigration, family separation, calling for shooting of peaceful protestors, attacks on reproductive rights and destruction of the environment.

No party is a monolith, but these are executed and strongly advocated for policies of the GOP. Democrats are far from perfect but in terms of actual damage done to people there is no contest.

[ZHP Sparky - the 5th]

@chariotoflove @Just-Jeepin has entirely valid points in his response to this post. But if you must square it some how, lay it all on Mitch McConnell. He has not been a good faith actor in his position as majority leader. The amount of power he wielded in being the decision maker on what bills make it to the senate floor, and the level of obstruction he was willing to spearhead during the Obama administration - divided government with that man at the helm simply means standstill.

SO yeah in theory divided government may very well be a great way to ensure we govern based on compromise, but that was already out the window. But don't despair - what we will have now is very close to that given how close the split is. People like Manchin and Collins will have a lot more power under the Biden presidency than the Warrens and AOCs that the right likes to use as Boogey men. Beyond that all this means is that Biden won't have to face the level of obstruction in seating his cabinet that he was sure to face under a GOP senate.

[Chariotoflove]

@just-jeepin said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove One party has:

• Embraced voter suppression
• Been demonstrably overzealous at gerrymandering
• Embraced and supported a demonstrably authoritarian politician who is currently burning down the government

I'm not going to play "both sides" with this.

No, I know. You have always been very clear. Democrats are the good guys, and Republicans are the bad guys. And by extension, any one who is a member of or votes for a candidate of the Republican party is a bad person who works agains the common good. Message received loud and clear.

So, if you hold to that ethos, then clearly what every decent person must do is to fight like hell against the influence of the Republicans until they can be eradicated from the political arena. The problem is, that labels approximately half of the country's population as minions of evil who must be defeated. But they are not going away. So, instead of governing, you commit yourself to the endless battle to defeat the undefeatable enemy: your fellow Americans. Welcome to the lather-rinse-repeat cycle of American politics. You are now part of the system.

I'll be over here voting split ticket, like I have every election since I turned 18. You know, like a traitor to the human race.

[Just Jeepin']

@chariotoflove I’d never assert the Democrats are perfect. Hell, I ran for office as a Libertarian.

Both sides are flawed. Not both sides are equally culpable for the disastrous situation we find ourselves in politically and culturally.

[Chariotoflove]

@zhp-sparky-the-5th

I don't see any of the entrenched party leadership at good-faith actors. Eventually they all have to die, retire, or get voted out, and hopefully someone not as much of a partisan warrior will ascend. Yeah, call me silly, I know.

[jminer]

@just-jeepin said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

Hell, I ran for office as a Libertarian.

Fun fact: Libertarian used to describe far-left anarchists. Then the far right rebranded it as freedom by doing the bidding of billionaires.

[StuckMTB]

@fintail said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@ttyymmnn the cowardly little dope was right after all:

that's so rich.

[Chariotoflove]

@just-jeepin said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove I’d never assert the Democrats are perfect. Hell, I ran for office as a Libertarian.

Both sides are flawed. Not both sides are equally culpable for the disastrous situation we find ourselves in politically and culturally.

With you on the first statement, not on the second. When everyone claims the moral high ground over the other side, they abdicate it by default. Each side's actions are a reaction to the other side.

[jminer]

@chariotoflove said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@just-jeepin said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove I’d never assert the Democrats are perfect. Hell, I ran for office as a Libertarian.

Both sides are flawed. Not both sides are equally culpable for the disastrous situation we find ourselves in politically and culturally.

With you on the first statement, not on the second. When everyone claims the moral high ground over the other side, they abdicate it by default. Each side's actions are a reaction to the other side.

You're point here doesn't add up. So by fighting Nazi's we become worse than Nazi's? I mean this both as a call-back to World War 2 and to the present-day rise of neo-Nazis.

The two main political factions in charge of the US today are not equivalent. I'm not talking about ideological differences but real harm done by enacted policies. When you look at the end-result there is no comparison.

[facw]

National Association of Manufacturers (not exactly a bunch of lefties, and strong supporters of Trump's tax cuts):

Washington, D.C. – National Association of Manufacturers President and CEO Jay Timmons released the following statement in response to large groups of armed Trump adherents who have violently stormed the U.S. Capitol building as members of Congress meet to count the electoral votes:

“Armed violent protestors who support the baseless claim by outgoing president Trump that he somehow won an election that he overwhelmingly lost have stormed the U.S. Capitol today, attacking police officers and first responders, because Trump refused to accept defeat in a free and fair election. Throughout this whole disgusting episode, Trump has been cheered on by members of his own party, adding fuel to the distrust that has enflamed violent anger. This is not law and order. This is chaos. It is mob rule. It is dangerous. This is sedition and should be treated as such. The outgoing president incited violence in an attempt to retain power, and any elected leader defending him is violating their oath to the Constitution and rejecting democracy in favor of anarchy. Anyone indulging conspiracy theories to raise campaign dollars is complicit. Vice President Pence, who was evacuated from the Capitol, should seriously consider working with the Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment to preserve democracy.

“This is not the vision of America that manufacturers believe in and work so hard to defend. Across America today, millions of manufacturing workers are helping our nation fight the deadly pandemic that has already taken hundreds of thousands of lives. We are trying to rebuild an economy and save and rebuild lives. But none of that will matter if our leaders refuse to fend off this attack on America and our democracy—because our very system of government, which underpins our very way of life, will crumble.”

[fintail]

@ttyymmnn Definitely. These are Quislings, collaborators. Let them be treated as those in similar roles in the past.

[fintail]

@chariotoflove I wish we had the political spectrum that existed even when I was 18. Now it is bumbling ineffective Ds and a loud contingent of Rs who are trying to summon the fascist desires of the past.

Looking at local/WA politics, I can't see any Rs who really represent any form of progress or justice. Our R gubernatorial candidate was a sick joke, and congressional types are little better. On a national level, it is even worse. Where are the good ones, why should one choose them? It wasn't like this a generation or two ago.

[Chariotoflove]

@jminer said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@just-jeepin said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove I’d never assert the Democrats are perfect. Hell, I ran for office as a Libertarian.

Both sides are flawed. Not both sides are equally culpable for the disastrous situation we find ourselves in politically and culturally.

With you on the first statement, not on the second. When everyone claims the moral high ground over the other side, they abdicate it by default. Each side's actions are a reaction to the other side.

You're point here doesn't add up. So by fighting Nazi's we become worse than Nazi's? I mean this both as a call-back to World War 2 and to the present-day rise of neo-Nazis.

The two main political factions in charge of the US today are not equivalent. I'm not talking about ideological differences but real harm done by enacted policies. When you look at the end-result there is no comparison.

It doesn't add up because you are starting with the false definition of Republicans=Nazis.

I'm registered as a Republican. I vote for Republican candidates lots of the time. Pretty sure I'm not a Nazi. Wait, lemme check...nope, still not a Nazi.

I vote for smaller government, fiscal responsibility, conservative judiciary, right to life, individual freedom, and equal opportunity through education. The Republican party has strayed from a lot of the things I want for my country, but the Democrats aren't embracing many of the things I care about on a national level either. They both are damaging my country in different ways with the policies they embrace, but they also each have elements of their agendas that still fit with what I believe in. So I look for candidates as individuals. More times than not, that leads me to vote red instead of blue, but not always, especially on education here in Texas.

Now you can keep pounding at me that one side is way more evil than the other, but I've thought about this a lot for a couple of decades now and watched what's happened around me. Perhaps some of the things I see as evils don't seem so bad to you, or vice versa. I don't know. But at this point, I'm not willing to give either team a pass or entrust either one with all the keys to the kingdom. I'm going to keep hoping for divided government and wishing that occasionally people will come together to enact legislation for the good.

[Chariotoflove]

@fintail said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove I wish we had the political spectrum that existed even when I was 18. Now it is bumbling ineffective Ds and a loud contingent of Rs who are trying to summon the fascist desires of the past.

Looking at local/WA politics, I can't see any Rs who really represent any form of progress or justice. Our R gubernatorial candidate was a sick joke, and congressional types are little better. On a national level, it is even worse. Where are the good ones, why should one choose them? It wasn't like this a generation or two ago.

I dunno. Sometimes I despair. The Democrats on a national level were widely thought to have an empty bullpen for the presidential race, at least that's what I kept reading from the pundits. The response of the Repubs was to elect Donald Trump? There were so many more talented folks. I'm glad he'll be out of the picture from a party influence standpoint now, but I'm not sure who will emerge next. Conversely, Biden had just been hanging around forever and doesn't really represent the future. Evan Bayh was supposed to be the candidate of the future a while back, but he noped it out of there when he saw the lay of the land. I'm ready for new blood on both sides, but I don't know who that is.

[fintail]

@chariotoflove Some may call me ageist, but this just reinforces how a certain generational cohort needs to let go and let someone else lead. They are not helping things anymore. A new generation can't be any worse...can it? Sadly, many of this group have tainted their devilspawn.

The Ds don't seem to have any real upcoming leaders, and maybe haven't had a strong one since Bill Clinton. He was sketchy as shit, but at least you knew what you were getting when you voted for him. I can't think of any big D names we'll see in a decade - young blood seems to come in, amble around, then vanish.

I'd fear any future Rs with the vision of the party these days, who will it be, Hawley, Junior, Miller? Pence in reality is as bad as his boss, just less vulgar. Can a R return to having some dignity and actually representing people, or will they have to either branch off into a new party, or force the Trumpists to do so? I don't embrace either party, but I have to say, to my eyes, one is far less of an evil.

[jminer]

@chariotoflove My statement wasn't that Republicans are nazi's but to counter your statement of by fighting one side they becomes the worse actor.

I was raised in a fundamental Christian household and voted Republican when I was younger, once I wandered outside of my small sphere though I began to see the hypocrisy and greed in all of it.

Being taught in a school that burned books which talked about evolution and raised in a house that threw out an older sibling for having sex I have lived in the base of the party and no longer want any part of it.

[Chariotoflove]

@fintail said in Trump's Destruction of the GOP is complete:

@chariotoflove Some may call me ageist, but this just reinforces how a certain generational cohort needs to let go and let someone else lead. They are not helping things anymore. A new generation can't be any worse...can it? Sadly, many of this group have tainted their devilspawn.

The Ds don't seem to have any real upcoming leaders, and maybe haven't had a strong one since Bill Clinton. He was sketchy as shit, but at least you knew what you were getting when you voted for him. I can't think of any big D names we'll see in a decade - young blood seems to come in, amble around, then vanish.

I'd fear any future Rs with the vision of the party these days, who will it be, Hawley, Junior, Miller? Pence in reality is as bad as his boss, just less vulgar. Can a R return to having some dignity and actually representing people, or will they have to either branch off into a new party, or force the Trumpists to do so? I don't embrace either party, but I have to say, to my eyes, one is far less of an evil.

I feel a lot of the same, although I think there is a lot of dignity in the R party, and the desire to lead, not just beat the Ds. The core R values of small government, conservative judicial and fiscal philosophy are still there, just buried. I liked the guys that came out of the midwest, like Mitch Daniels, who isn't going for office anymore, but was a good governor and is now a good university president. I think Eric Holcomb is a good governor. My wife and I liked Kaisich during the election. For the Ds, I don't know. The former South Bend mayor seemed like a good guy, but they really need new blood to come up from the grass roots.