Quebec banning gasoline vehicle sales past 2035

[CB]

(link)

Personally, I think it's a pretty reasonable idea. However, putting a ban in place when electric vehicles only make up 2% of the vehicles on the road are electric, with limited buying options, is a little bit of a chicken and egg problem. Fingers crossed manufacturers are able to increase the variety of models available by the due date.
And for those wondering about where the energy will come from, Quebec gets 95% of its energy from hydroelectric and 4% from wind, so they've got the renewable energy thing down.

[sn4cktimes]

I feel the only sector of the populace that might struggle with electric only would be some industrial vehicles for way out in the boonies. But 2035... they’ve got time to figure it out.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Sounds a long ways a way -- but with what time does as one ages, it's really just around the corner.

[ranwhenparked]

@sn4cktimes And those also tend to last a long time, heavy duty trucks sold new in 2034 will probably still be in use well into the 2070s.

[ClassicDatsunDebate]

@CB I think these mandates by politicians help steer the direction of policy, tax laws and infrastructure, which may help slightly change the course of the oil-freighter of culture. Besides, none of the people involved will still be accountable for it in 15 years so if it doesn’t happen, who cares. It’s aspirational

[CarsOfFortLangley]

@ClassicDatsunDebate Bingo. Just like it's better optics (and for the ego) to open parks, buildings, infrastructure rather than fund older stuff, it is huge commitments and bans that get headlines and when you can just pass a law that you never have to obey or enforce, all the better.

[spacekraken]

15 years is a long time to get everything in place infrastructure wise. If they can get even 1/4 to 1/2 as many fast chargers as there are current gas stations, and ranges to consistently hit 200+mi in the cold (doable), this will be great and it sounds like the hydro infrastructure is fantastic there.

Even if not enforced, it's a push in the right direction.

[RallyDarkstrike]

I just hope they do get the infrastructure sorted in time...also, those in apartments will be screwed because if they et an EV and don't have a place to plug their car in, they'll loose SO much range overnight in winter...

[Chariotoflove]

I like the idea that regulations push the pace of innovation and change. The potential problem I see here is that perhaps to meet the deadlines, makers will have to push all out with the tech they have now and commit. In this case the commitment will be to batteries and charging infrastructure. What if something like hydrogen turns out to be the better long term solutions but it looses out because too much money has been sunk in batteries? I’m not saying this is a reason to stall the progress. It’s just something I think about.

[spacekraken]

@rallydarkstrike Actually a bit of good news, batteries don't really lose capacity sitting, even in the cold. Winter range on a full battery is way less (think 60% if the heater is blasting), but sitting overnight should lose you like 1% charge. The e-golf regularly sits in 0celsius / low 30s farenheit overnight for a week in a row unplugged with no loss of range.

The apartment thing is tougher-I think the answer at first is slow charging since it's easy to put in (basically, extension cord and done).

[RallyDarkstrike]

@spacekraken said in Quebec banning gasoline vehicle sales past 2035:

@rallydarkstrike Actually a bit of good news, batteries don't really lose capacity sitting, even in the cold. Winter range on a full battery is way less (think 60% if the heater is blasting), but sitting overnight should lose you like 1% charge. The e-golf regularly sits in 0celsius / low 30s farenheit overnight for a week in a row unplugged with no loss of range.

The apartment thing is tougher-I think the answer at first is slow charging since it's easy to put in (basically, extension cord and done).

True, but remember this is Canada where things in the winter are more like -10 to -20C on a regular basis, and sometimes a little colder at night. Not sure if that makes much of a difference, but it might!

As for slow charging...isn't it like...ridiculously slow...?

[CB]

@rallydarkstrike said in Quebec banning gasoline vehicle sales past 2035:

... this is Canada where things in the winter are more like -10 to -20C on a regular basis...

laughs in prairie

[A Former User]

Matt Farah and Johnny Lieberman had a heated discussion about EVs on a recent episode of The Smoking Tire podcast, and it started with talking about the CA "ban" starting in 2035(?). And Lieberman didn't think it was an issue because he thinks EV adoption is going to explode exponentially in a few years. He says once the price per kWh drops below $100 it will be more expensive to make ICE cars than EVs. Even as an EV proponent I don't know if I buy that, but I do think EV sales are going to grow exponentially and when these bans take effect it won't be a big deal.

[RallyDarkstrike]

@cb said in Quebec banning gasoline vehicle sales past 2035:

@rallydarkstrike said in Quebec banning gasoline vehicle sales past 2035:

... this is Canada where things in the winter are more like -10 to -20C on a regular basis...

laughs in prairie

Yeah, I'm thinking of here in Nova Scotia, lol.

[spacekraken]

@his_stigness said in Quebec banning gasoline vehicle sales past 2035:

when these bans take effect it won't be a big deal.

That's the hope!

@RallyDarkstrike My point was if it's effectively 0% loss in a week at 0c, it probably wouldn't be much loss in a night at -30, yeah. Maybe if your battery was at 85% it would be 80% after a really really cold night, on a car with bad battery management like a Leaf.

Slow charging works just fine if you're doing less miles in a day than you charge overnight-in the e-golf that works out to about 60 miles (12-15ish hours on the charger) so haven't put a fast charger in my family's current place as a result. But Level 2 charging (240v, 5-10 hours) is hardly difficult/expensive either if done right, just needs the impetus to get apartments to actually do it.

[BaconSandwich]

Eh, call me a skeptic. I think bans like this are more just about getting political points rather than actually doing anything. That's still 15 years out. Look where we were 15 years ago with electric cars. 15 years from now we'll be that much further ahead.

[TheDutchTexan]

Well, the stupid Lithium Ion batteries in my camera consistently do worse when the temperatures are low vs summer time. I always try to keep my spares as close to my body as possible so they keep warm until I have to use them. The car batteries keep themselves warm and are undoubtedly a better quality but still. I don't see how electric cars can last up north vs down here in the south.

And then there is the fact that electric grids can't handle it currently, and I doubt they will in 2035. The few cars that are out there now are fine, but if everyone is plugging those things in at night there are going to be problems for sure. Electric companies do not have a lot of profit and they seem more happy with patching problems rather than upgrading the grid as a result. 2035 is 15 years. I don't see it happening. I'll probably still be burning guzzoline.

[spacekraken]

@thedutchtexan What camera lol? Mine will easily go 1500 shots in the snow without blinking (6D). On four year old batteries, no less. But yeah, plenty of folks running EVs up north and while you can't get full range they don't up and die like a phone/camera will. Have hooned mine in the snow quite a bit and it lasts just fine in 10f at least

I think the grid/infrastructure depends massively on the area. I live in a >90% hydroelectric state and we make enough power that tons goes to other states, so there's potential but it will have to be on a localized basis.

[TheDutchTexan]

@spacekraken I shoot video. It's a Sony a6000. I get around 1-1.5 hours of shooting 1080p60 in the highest setting out of my 4 batteries. Closer to that hour mark in the winter, closer to the 1.5 hour mark when the temps are good. Now the batteries are aging, but I noticed that reduced capacity gig 4 years ago when they were close to new.

[spacekraken]

@thedutchtexan Ah yeah a 40-50% drop in battery life going from say 80f to 10f would make sense (and the car's range does drop 30% or more in that much swing, it just doesn't lose charge sitting parked).

I probably have that drop too on my camera-routinely get 1000 shots in the summer and the battery says 80% still! Still photos and SLR optical finders both give a ton more battery life-but my camera is terrible for video as a result lol.

[Jb boin]

The UK has put it's deadline in 2030 and Norway in 2025 so it's not so mad for Quebec to push it for 2035.

While that might look impossible or stupid to push, you just have to see Norway today, how they have succeded in a fast EV adoption and how EVs (and hybrids) are gaining ground very fast in Europe because of regulations ; most of the current EV technology has been around for decades but the market itself was not existing as manufacturers had no reason to push for it.

And about EVs for peoples in apartment, in here public parkings have charging spots and new private parking boxes are required to be equipped.

[Smallbear]

@CB Frankly it's all bogus. Unless some truly remarkable batteries (and charging tecniques) are developed, that date's just going to keep getting pushed.

Not to mention that the grid just won't handle the demand. Yeah, they've got 15 years to sort it... Construction moves slow. I have many doubts.

IMO, and I've been banging this drum for a while, full-scale electrification is going to have to come down to the viability of hydrogen fuel cells.