Abe Lincoln edition
The people who push things this far just help allow reasonable centrists to find merit in the "slippery slope" arguments used by those who wanted Confederate monuments left up... (and play right into the hands of the Trump 2024 crowd).
CobraJoe last edited by CobraJoe
Never meet your heros: Historical edition.
But overall, I'm not a fan of deifying or demonifying people. There is absolutely no human in history who is/was completely faultless in hindsight. (Possibly excluding various religious figures, but lets not get in to that.)
Living today in the information age has made the heros of the past far more human, putting their sins on display almost as easily as the heroics that made them famous. Overall, I think this is a good thing. It can remind us that we don't need to be a "messiah" of any sort to do good things, and it might help us to look closer at the good that people are doing today (instead of only looking back at the well remembered figures of the past).
not a fan of deifying or [demonizing] people
This is a good take.
Our founding fathers and others have definitely been deified in the past, with little to no attention given to their faults, and that should change. But those brave enough to stand up for what is right and just (past and present) should also be given credit for doing that, in spite of their personal failings.
@cobrajoe Totally agree. I had this conversation with a conservative friend of mine. I believe this was back when statues were being torn down this year. He made the slippery slope argument and it went into why are we putting statues up of people anyway? I personally don't think anyone earns eternal recognition outside of a museum or library. That way things can be presented in context. Almost every time I look up a building named after someone I can find many things that person did or said that has no place in our society of today. I get it that a lot of people need leaders and role models but they should inspire people to move forward on their own and not dwell and worship them as a messiah. Just think of all the times people were actually hurt to find their role model was actually a horrible person. The thing is that they are just people. You are the one that put them up there.
CobraJoe last edited by
@davesaddiction I'm sure that raising the Founding Fathers up to near godlike status had a purpose, but I'm not sure it's still necessary. Plus, if that sentiment leans towards deifying a leader before they've done great things... Well, history has shown us several potential atrocities that can result from that sort of cult of personality.
I completely agree that we should give credit to people who stand up for what is right and just, but we should also positively acknowledge people who have done wrong and owned up to it. Not release them from the consequences, but still...
@cobrajoe I think it's more contentious when it comes to historical figureheads. They are (or were at least) taught to us in school as being the very architects of our society and that they were pure and without fault. Hopefully the education will change with our current and future generations. Not demonizing or indemnifying them per say but showing that they made mistakes that future generations had to fix. Show that we always have to work to better our ideals for our nation to thrive. Every generation has their leaders, but the future generations should only work to build off their ideals, not worship them as gospel.
fintail last edited by
If there's any luck in the world, 45 will be rotting behind bars in a state pen in 2024.
Those who expect a historical figure to have zero faults are also probably in the same overlap with those who refuse to vote because they can't find the perfect candidate.
@thebarber Definitely agree.
Have been very thankful in the past few years for the checks & balances they made sure to include. Congress needs to do their job and take back some of the control that's been lost to the presidency in the past few decades.
CobraJoe last edited by
@thebarber I would be good with a change like that.
Maybe my high school was of poor quality (or my memory for history is lackluster), but I certainly don't remember learning much about US history other than the founding fathers and some civil war highlights.
@davesaddiction Yep, I've felt the executive overreach has spanned multiple administrations. 2,977 souls weren't the only loss from 9/11 after all.
Speaking about past admins and cancel culture I remember just a couple weeks ago how fast people jumped to tear Obama down about "snappy slogans" and defund the police.
@CobraJoe Ah but the important part is you remember the founding fathers. Mine definitely had a "you owe everything in your life to these guys" kinda vibe. Which is kind of true at a level, but they didn't get into the nuances of it all. At least I can be thankful my school taught the civil war as a fight over slavery and not "states rights".