"locked"
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I know I've said this before, but I'm really bothered by this.
No, not buttons or stupid acronyms..the little buttons on the right of this pad that show, with zero ambiguity, a "lock" function. The 4WD lock is pretty common and has been for some time, even though most of these systems don't actually have differentials to lock.
I give a pass to the early versions of these because even though the RAV4, as an example, had a button like this for a while in the latter versions which didn't actually have differentials to lock. Early versions did originally in fact have center differential and differential locks. Real ones
Fun fact about this button, found on gen 1 rav4's with the manual, is that its the same part number as the one in my land cruiser and in both cases does, actually, lock a center differential.
No what boils my blood is when manufactures take this little lie further by saying that the rear differential also has a "lock". And its clear thats what they mean as its an actual lock icon.
For one, the Bronco sport (shown above) doesn't have a center OR rear differential in this trim. So the 4wd lock isn't a lock and the rear differential lock isn't a lock.
"but it does the same thing." says the marketing peeps. Uh, no it doesn't.
Check out the drivers side rear tire after the "rear lock" has been engaged. Notice a distinct differential action? Notice no locking function? Yeah.
Look, all these buttons do is tell the traction programing to behave in a certain way, which is to apply as much clamping load to the clutches as is realistic. The funny thing is that in most systems, the traction programing will already be doing that in situations like this. The buttons are mostly a placebo - though they can prempt some slip.
Anyway. Thats all.
Some kind of sentient rodent - Overland Curator.
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@hammerheadfistpunch said in "locked":
The buttons are mostly a placebo
So like the door close button in an elevator. Got it.
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@chariotoflove said in "locked":
@hammerheadfistpunch said in "locked":
The buttons are mostly a placebo
So like the door close button in an elevator. Got it.
The trick is to hold it down firmly and mutter, "C'mon c'mon c'mon..." otherwise it will not work.
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@hammerheadfistpunch ya wana talk ambiguity?
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@dr-zoidberg said in "locked":
@chariotoflove said in "locked":
@hammerheadfistpunch said in "locked":
The buttons are mostly a placebo
So like the door close button in an elevator. Got it.
The trick is to hold it down firmly and mutter, "C'mon c'mon c'mon..." otherwise it will not work.
So that's where these guys went wrong then...
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@hammerheadfistpunch
Imagine if they got rid of the button and buried the function in the on-screen menu...Take the hard road and walk it. Because hedges aren't as soft as they look.
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@silentbutnotreallydeadly The net effect on capability would be the same. Same goes for removing the buttons entirely and using the knob only. These buttons are silly.
Some kind of sentient rodent - Overland Curator.
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@classicdatsundebate I dunno, seems pretty straightforward. The Cruiser and GX are both simpler and more complicated.
H-N-L seems pretty straightforward but I still have to push the lock button (top row, far left...same as rav4 above) to be in AWD locked. Its supposed to lock the center automatically when you go into 4lo but I changed the behavior with a mod.
Some kind of sentient rodent - Overland Curator.
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I kinda feel like that on my old Tacoma's 4 low function. It had a e-lock or whatever the hell that meant. I'm quite certain that it didn't have an electronic locker on the rear axle.
I is smurt.
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@hammerheadfistpunch said in "locked":
@silentbutnotreallydeadly The net effect on capability would be the same. Same goes for removing the buttons entirely and using the knob only. These buttons are silly.
No question. However, providing a perception of capability might be a selling point even if there's no significant actual capability to back it up. Or any expectations that such a capability might be exploited or explored.
Take the hard road and walk it. Because hedges aren't as soft as they look.
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@silentbutnotreallydeadly I guess thats my beef, is that the people I talk to who would buy something like this mention these features as selling points and being confident the buttons do what they say they do...but don't actually do. I think people are going to go out thinking they have the same 4WD system as a 4Runner or something and end up stuck.
Some kind of sentient rodent - Overland Curator.
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@hammerheadfistpunch
Yeah I guess my point is: can you tell me the difference between 4H Part Time and 4H Auto without any intrinsic knowledge? -
@hammerheadfistpunch
It is annoying but it's probably overstated as many punters in these sort of vehicles strike me as being intimidated by maintained unsealed roads, let alone rarely maintained forestry trails or even unmaintained double tracks. So they don't get as far as one might imagine.Maybe?
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@hammerheadfistpunch
Our 3rd gen RAV4 had the button with the x in the center. I believe it switched the 4wd system from part time to full time….but I can’t remember plus I had the 4Runner at the time so I could be confusing the two. -
@classicdatsundebate The button in the 3rd gen RAV4 applied full pressure to the clutches up to 18 mph I think [edit: 25, but it turns off with hard brakes], then it turns off the "center lock" button. Nothing more than what this button does, but probably with less sophistication.
Your story definitely illustrates the problem though, in that people think the button does more than it actually does.
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@classicdatsundebate part-time is for the dirt or slippy-sliddy areas, the place you spend part of your time, otherwise get into auto, since the computer is smarter than most drivers.
@classicdatsundebate said in "locked":
@hammerheadfistpunch
Yeah I guess my point is: can you tell me the difference between 4H Part Time and 4H Auto without any intrinsic knowledge? -
@pyroholtz Pretty much...but Part time 4H means, to me, that the 4WD system is only ON part time....but that's actually Auto.
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@pyroholtz Its on a Wrangler, so I think the demographic generally understands that part-time is "4wd" as most people know it and that Auto is something in between that you can leave it in and not think about it. I tell you though, the number of people that I've met that think that its okay to leave a part-time 4WD vehicle in 4WD all the time is way to high for me to be comfortable. People that refuse to believe that a manufacture would give you something on a truck that could hurt the truck if used wrong.
Jeep's been doing this for long enough that most people know by now
To be fair though, Jeep could have labled it differently to be
2WD - 4AUTO - 4HI - N - 4LOThat way you don't have to wonder about what part-time means. Auto does it for you and 4HI is "4WD" as people know it generally.
Some kind of sentient rodent - Overland Curator.
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@future-next-gen-s2000-owner they never had a full time system in the Tacoma so I don't know what you saw. They did have e lock for the rear diff.
Some kind of sentient rodent - Overland Curator.
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@hammerheadfistpunch
That’s only on Selectrac….and it only became an option on the Wrangler this year I believe. -
@hammerheadfistpunch said in "locked":
To be fair though, Jeep could have labled it differently to be
2WD - 4AUTO - 4HI - N - 4LOThat way you don't have to wonder about what part-time means. Auto does it for you and 4HI is "4WD" as people know it generally.
My 2001 Suburban had this but on a dash switch - I mean, 2HI, 4AUTO, 4HI, N, 4LO. I put it in 4 AUTO once in the snow, then gave it the beans just to see what would happen, and it made a horrible clunk when the 4wd engaged, so I vowed never to use that mode again. Maybe it's fine if you are gentle and it engages with a bit of rear wheel slip, but I felt like I would know when that was likely to occur. That thing had plenty of rear traction even in the snow.
The point is, it was clear what it meant.
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Our 2019 Toyota Highlander has that button and I find it funny because 99.9% of the soccer moms that drive Highlanders have no idea what it is even supposed to do.
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@hammerheadfistpunch This stuff gets people into trouble, too. I was on a deep sandy road on BLM land near the UT-CO border and had to help dig out an AWD egg shaped Oldsmobile piloted by a group of college aged kids. They were high centered with their wheels nearly buried because the owner thought they had 4wd. Not that it would have helped him in this situation as he had no idea how to navigate deep sand, but he may have chosen a different camp sight if he knew his vehicle didn’t actually have any offroad capability.
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@hammerheadfistpunch
My uncle wanted a suv to go on the beach and kept looking at the passport. "uh it has awd, but I don't know if its good enough for soft sand" "but the salesman said it has a sand mode. "
"but its still not 4wd"
"but the salesman.."
"wanted to sell you a car"
he still bought it.
Started seeing this a decade ago, some forester buried to the frame with a clueless driver -
@silentbutnotreallydeadly said in "locked":
@hammerheadfistpunch
Imagine if they got rid of the button and buried the function in the on-screen menu...Then it'd be a BMW
