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    Seriously Ford?

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    • 2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata
      2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by

      Why is this piece of crap two piece driveshaft in my car?! FRPP upgrade in foreground. 1205201646.jpg

      1997 Dodge Dakota 5.2 Club Cab 4x4 | 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland | 2010 Ford Mustang GT Premium Track Pack

      doodon2whls Vondon302 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • doodon2whls
        doodon2whls @2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by doodon2whls

        @2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata said in Seriously Ford?:

        Why is this piece of crap two piece driveshaft in my car?! FRPP upgrade in foreground.

        The safety factor (critical driveshaft speed), NVH, and durability targets are much more conservative for OEM's versus aftermarket...

        You'll probably be ok, but a longer single driveshaft would not likely pass Ford's powertrain durability testing.

        '21 K1600GTL
        '18 Jekyll AL3
        '16 F-150 Lariat
        '00 VFR800
        '96 R400

        F Nauraushaun 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • 2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata
          2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by 2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata

          Which is crazy with prior generations using a one piece. Also this driveshaft is made by Dana.

          1997 Dodge Dakota 5.2 Club Cab 4x4 | 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland | 2010 Ford Mustang GT Premium Track Pack

          doodon2whls 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • doodon2whls
            doodon2whls @2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by

            @2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata said in Seriously Ford?:

            Which is ctazy with prior generations using a one piece. Also this driveshaft is made by Dana.

            FDR and Tire diameter impact the speed of the driveshaft, too...

            It is odd that they abandoned a single segment driveshaft for an arguably more expensive two-segment driveshaft... My 157" WB F150 has a two-segment driveshaft, and yet there are aftermarket single segment driveshafts available... That's a little nutty IMHO, although I have 3.31 FDR axles, so it's not TOO bad from an RPM perspective.

            '21 K1600GTL
            '18 Jekyll AL3
            '16 F-150 Lariat
            '00 VFR800
            '96 R400

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Just Jeepin'
              Just Jeepin' last edited by

              Did a little digging out of curiosity; I guess a two-piece can be built to better withstand high RPM?

              https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0608rc-driveshaft-tech/

              On walkabout. Back soonish.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • F
                ForSweden @doodon2whls last edited by

                @doodon2whls if it's not under warranty, Ford cares less if it breaks before 100,000 miles

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • doodon2whls
                  doodon2whls @2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by

                  @2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata said in Seriously Ford?:

                  Which is ctazy with prior generations using a one piece. Also this driveshaft is made by Dana.

                  Do a search for "Critical Driveshaft Speed"

                  '21 K1600GTL
                  '18 Jekyll AL3
                  '16 F-150 Lariat
                  '00 VFR800
                  '96 R400

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • Nauraushaun
                    Nauraushaun @doodon2whls last edited by

                    @doodon2whls Wouldn't a single piece be more durable? Less stuff to go wrong!

                    '90 Toyota MR2 (NA, t-top)
                    Targa top enthusiast
                    Tag me in your 300ZX posts

                    doodon2whls 3point8isgreat 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • doodon2whls
                      doodon2whls @Nauraushaun last edited by doodon2whls

                      @nauraushaun said in Seriously Ford?:

                      @doodon2whls Wouldn't a single piece be more durable? Less stuff to go wrong!

                      All rotating components experience cyclical loading which impacts the lifespan / durability of the component. CV or double cardan joints can help reduce sinusoidal driveshaft speed/acceleration. The Length/Diameter ratio of the driveshaft is a primary factor in the critical driveshaft speed - the speed above which premature, unpredictable driveshaft failure may occur. There are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order driveshaft frequencies that all contribute to durability and NVH of the drive system... Segmenting the driveshaft in two is a calculated engineering decision which considers all of these factors, and includes cost an additional confounding factor. Two piece driveshafts could be more expensive, but much more durable due to the higher critical driveshaft speed.

                      Vehicle Systems are far more complicated (from an engineering perspective) than the general public can even fathom. As a former performance vehicle development engineer, this is a reality that I still live with to this day...

                      '21 K1600GTL
                      '18 Jekyll AL3
                      '16 F-150 Lariat
                      '00 VFR800
                      '96 R400

                      3point8isgreat VincentMalamute Nauraushaun 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 14
                      • 3point8isgreat
                        3point8isgreat @Nauraushaun last edited by

                        @nauraushaun No, because longer shafts vibrate more at a given speed. And most things on a factory car will be limited by fatigue life, not max strength. And vibration is a major driver of fatigue.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                        • Exage03040
                          Exage03040 last edited by

                          It's been a while since had a look at V6 Mustang Driveshaft Failures [explosions] on YouTube.

                          ToT: https://opposite-lock.com/topic/66761/this-or-that-235

                          2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • 3point8isgreat
                            3point8isgreat @doodon2whls last edited by

                            @doodon2whls Mmm yes. Shoot that engineering speak straight into my veins. Thats the good stuff.

                            doodon2whls 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
                            • VincentMalamute
                              VincentMalamute @doodon2whls last edited by

                              @doodon2whls Thanks, I always like the engineering explanations. Everything is more complicated than it looks at first glance. Cars, bicycles, economics, national and foreign policy.

                              ...meh...

                              doodon2whls 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
                              • doodon2whls
                                doodon2whls @3point8isgreat last edited by

                                @3point8isgreat said in Seriously Ford?:

                                @doodon2whls Mmm yes. Shoot that engineering speak straight into my veins. Thats the good stuff.

                                C'est mon plaisir, monsieur !

                                '21 K1600GTL
                                '18 Jekyll AL3
                                '16 F-150 Lariat
                                '00 VFR800
                                '96 R400

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • doodon2whls
                                  doodon2whls @VincentMalamute last edited by doodon2whls

                                  @vincentmalamute said in Seriously Ford?:

                                  @doodon2whls Thanks, I always like the engineering explanations. Everything is more complicated than it looks at first glance. Cars, bicycles, economics, national and foreign policy.

                                  Imagine my horror when I frequented the enthusiast forums for the vehicle for which I was the development engineer. I read (and replied to) more posts than I care to remember about replacing OEM parts with aftermarket parts that 'looked fast', but in reality degraded performance, durability, efficiency, etc... As a fellow enthusiast, I certainly appreciated the enthusiasm, but it pained me to read some of that stuff.

                                  '21 K1600GTL
                                  '18 Jekyll AL3
                                  '16 F-150 Lariat
                                  '00 VFR800
                                  '96 R400

                                  VincentMalamute Exage03040 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 8
                                  • VincentMalamute
                                    VincentMalamute @doodon2whls last edited by VincentMalamute

                                    @doodon2whls said in Seriously Ford?:

                                    but in reality degraded performance, durability, efficiency, etc... As a fellow enthusiast, I certainly appreciated the enthusiasm, but it pained me to read some of that stuff.

                                    I feel your pain. Life is much easier if one can reduce one's grasp of a complex topic to a single sentence (it's shiny so it's better!). An in-depth understanding of engineering, a car modification, surgical procedure, or immigration policy isn't necessary.

                                    ...meh...

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • Exage03040
                                      Exage03040 @doodon2whls last edited by

                                      @doodon2whls said in Seriously Ford?:

                                      Imagine my horror when I frequented the enthusiast forums for the vehicle for which I was the development engineer.

                                      The worst.
                                      Especially the correct but not really because it's severely outdated information debates.
                                      I can only sit and laugh at those now, there's just no point in engaging.

                                      ToT: https://opposite-lock.com/topic/66761/this-or-that-235

                                      doodon2whls 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • doodon2whls
                                        doodon2whls @Exage03040 last edited by

                                        @exage03040 said in Seriously Ford?:

                                        @doodon2whls said in Seriously Ford?:

                                        Imagine my horror when I frequented the enthusiast forums for the vehicle for which I was the development engineer.

                                        The worst.
                                        Especially the correct but not really because it's severely outdated information debates.
                                        I can only sit and laugh at those now, there's just no point in engaging.

                                        "I'm telling you, my dad and his dad always let their car warm up 5 minutes before driving it. Their cars lasted almost 100,000 miles !"
                                        <facepalm>

                                        "If you don't want your car engine to smoke, run 20W50 oil. It's thicker, so it wont leak past the piston rings or valve guides."

                                        and a thousand more just like those...

                                        '21 K1600GTL
                                        '18 Jekyll AL3
                                        '16 F-150 Lariat
                                        '00 VFR800
                                        '96 R400

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                        • 2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata
                                          2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by

                                          When I pulled my transmission out to do the clutch I was shocked to find this driveshaft setup under the car. It's pretty heavy and according to ford "not servicable" also has a sticker saying "not usable if dropped". I upgraded to this one for lighter weight and the Dana 1310 u-joints.

                                          1997 Dodge Dakota 5.2 Club Cab 4x4 | 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland | 2010 Ford Mustang GT Premium Track Pack

                                          doodon2whls 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • BaconSandwich
                                            BaconSandwich last edited by

                                            @doodon2whls Oh man. I'd love to pick your brain at some point. I love hearing the in-depth explanations on stuff like that.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                            • doodon2whls
                                              doodon2whls @2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by

                                              @2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata said in Seriously Ford?:

                                              When I pulled my transmission out to do the clutch I was shocked to find this driveshaft setup under the car. It's pretty heavy and according to ford "not servicable" also has a sticker saying "not usable if dropped". I upgraded to this one for lighter weight and the Dana 1310 u-joints.

                                              With a 107-ish inch wheelbase, I am surprised that the Mustang has a two segment driveshaft, but coming from the Industry, I can tell you that there was a compelling set of data and analysis that substantiated the complexity that a two segment driveshaft requires over a single segment unit.

                                              RE: the non serviceable and "don't use if dropped" warning: If you ding a driveshaft, the resulting stress riser and possible geometric distortion will likely lead to vibration and premature driveshaft failure. Ford (and other manufacturers) are not willing to leave the safety of it's customers to the judgement call of a field technician or engineer. The cost of the replacement parts is much less than a damaged driveline (or worse) when it fails. 'Cheap Insurance'...

                                              Like I said - you'll probably be ok, bit there was a good reason that the driveshaft was segmented by design.

                                              '21 K1600GTL
                                              '18 Jekyll AL3
                                              '16 F-150 Lariat
                                              '00 VFR800
                                              '96 R400

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                              • doodon2whls
                                                doodon2whls @2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by doodon2whls

                                                @2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata said in Seriously Ford?:

                                                When I pulled my transmission out to do the clutch I was shocked to find this driveshaft setup under the car. It's pretty heavy and according to ford "not servicable" also has a sticker saying "not usable if dropped". I upgraded to this one for lighter weight and the Dana 1310 u-joints.

                                                The driveshaft (with u-joints) does not spin at a constant angular velocity.

                                                '21 K1600GTL
                                                '18 Jekyll AL3
                                                '16 F-150 Lariat
                                                '00 VFR800
                                                '96 R400

                                                VincentMalamute 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                • 2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata
                                                  2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata @Exage03040 last edited by

                                                  @exage03040 I showed those videos to my girlfriend last week and she was shocked but I've always found it satisfying.

                                                  1997 Dodge Dakota 5.2 Club Cab 4x4 | 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland | 2010 Ford Mustang GT Premium Track Pack

                                                  doodon2whls 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                  • doodon2whls
                                                    doodon2whls @2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by

                                                    @2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata said in Seriously Ford?:

                                                    @exage03040 I showed those videos to my girlfriend last week and she was shocked but I've always found it satisfying.

                                                    Yup. Empirical evidence of physical phenomena is always satisfying.

                                                    '21 K1600GTL
                                                    '18 Jekyll AL3
                                                    '16 F-150 Lariat
                                                    '00 VFR800
                                                    '96 R400

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • doodon2whls
                                                      doodon2whls @2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata last edited by

                                                      @2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata said in Seriously Ford?:

                                                      @exage03040 I showed those videos to my girlfriend last week and she was shocked but I've always found it satisfying.

                                                      Oh, and notice the OEM segmented driveshaft from your car has two constant velocity joints and one u-joint. That is a pricey assembly!

                                                      '21 K1600GTL
                                                      '18 Jekyll AL3
                                                      '16 F-150 Lariat
                                                      '00 VFR800
                                                      '96 R400

                                                      Jb boin 2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
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