Further Phone Musings (CAT S61 vs S62)

[AkioOhtori]

History

Right so, long long ago Caterpillar announced they were making a rugged phone, the CAT S60, with FLIR and I really wanted one. Fast forward like two years and they finally got around to making it, only to have it not be Verizon compatible, which was a deal breaker for me at the time. This was in like... 2016. I moved on, bought another phone, and all was well.

In 2019 F(x)Tec announced they were going to make a flagship keyboard phone, which I'd always missed my old Motorola keyboard phones so... I bought it, hated it, sold it.

In the interim I've been using a $140 Motorola Moto G6 which I actually really like. Two major problems with the phone: (1) The camera sucks (2) It is has been degrading in performance for a while. The first is what it is, but is sort of a problem as I don't always have a "big" camera at hand. The second could be solved with a factory reset, but in my experience once phones start acting weird like this the resets don't usually solve the problem for long. Likely some sort of planned obsolescence or unintentional software glitch that is never going to be solved.

Ok... so new phone time.

Well... I initially decided to go with a Motorola G8 Plus on the basis that I like Motorola phones and it was very cheap. Lol JK doesn't support VoLTE, which is going to be required in the US shortly. So that got returned and I'd resigned myself to hanging with my G6 for a while.

Well... then Amazon was like "Hey! I see you were looking at the Garmin inReach Mini! Do you want a CAT S61?"

I'm sorry a what now?

Yes, apparently Cat decided to build another FLIR smartphone!

The S61 was released in 2018 and like the S60 I longed for so long ago, is still a rugged phone with a FLIR camera, but now with a bonus air quality sensor and running Android 9! All this for $550, which is a little steep for a 2+ year old phone, but the floor on these seems to be around $400, presumably because of the FLIR camera, so it isn't bad.

The S61 is a chonky phone, but not appreciably larger than my G6 with its case on which, presumably, the S61 wouldn't need. Also, the S61 lacks a fingerprint sensor, which would take some getting used to. That said, it has a FICKIN LASER! Which is to say it can project a laser and then uses the camera to approximate distance. But still... laser.

Ok, so I'm working up to buying this and A WILD S62 APPEARS!

Ugh, that is right. There is apparently ALSO an S62, which was released sometime this year and has a more advanced FLIR camera, a slightly smaller camera, smaller battery, but much larger screen, more RAM, more internal storage, runs Android 11, and a fingerprint sensor. Unfortunately, however, it also lacks a headphone jack (which I use often for work) and the camera protrudes beyond the profile of the phone, which would hint at the need for a case. Also it hasn't been "released" in the US, or at least is not as readily available, and carries a $800 price tag.

But hey, both phones support VoLTE so at least there is that.

So... which to choose? S61? S62? Neither? BOTH!?

The correct answer is probably neither.

The issue I'm having is my buying "unique" phones has always backfired. The F(x)Tec Pro1 ate up hours of my life trying to get connected to a network, any network, and I was always unsure if it was working properly. The G8 Pro was also a head/heartache in its own way. Also with the holidays coming up, I probably shouldn't be blowing money on not needed hardware.

That said, this is a phone I've been pining for, on and off, for like 5 years at this point. No question that I want one. Also a phone is about the only thing aside from a mattress and a desk chair that I'm in contact with 8+ hours per day, so having one that "sparks joy" is important.

The S61 benefits from reasonable specs that are still an upgrade from the G6 at a not unreasonable price. The air quality meter sounds like a fun toy but likely isn't going to be something I use much now that I am out of oil and gas and the laser distance measurement is cool, but apparently not accurate enough to replace the real thing. The lack of fingerprint sensor is annoying, but deal-with-able. The 5.2" screen is on the small side, but somewhat made up for by the use of physical buttons vs on-screen. Also the underwater camera enabled by the use of physical buttons, apparently very good front and rear regular cameras, and FLIR are a big draw. At $550 it is within my "yeah sure why not" budget, if only just.

The S62 however has a couple big pluses vs the S61, but also quite a few big minuses. Apparently the FLIR sensor has about 4x the resolution and paired with some software tweaks has some deeply impressive modes available. Are those same software features available for the S61? Seems like they should be, but I'm guessing not. Additionally the S62 has a fingerprint sensor, which is handy, but lacks a headphone jack, which is not. The S62 also omits the physical buttons, which isn't a deal breaker by any means, but I sure do miss having buttons stay where I left them. For whatever reason the back camera on the S62 is lower resolution and protrudes from the phone, as is popular these days, which would make my worry about damaging it, even as a rugged phone. The S62 lacks the S61's environmental sensor, which is fine. The biggest plus in the S62's court is, however, its support of Android 11. Basically that says "yes this phone will be useful for a few years" vs the "we're pretty much done with this" of Android 9. Lastly the S62 a slightly larger, slightly higher resolution display, but is an inferior TFT to the S61's IPS. At $800 with no official US release, the S62 does worry me.

Allegedly, according to DigitalTrends, the S62 will be available for US purchase in "Early 2021" which means absolutely nothing IMO.

No really! Which?

Uhh... so without US support or an official, confirmed, release date, I'd be inclined to pick up the S61. Neither model has 5G which will, eventually, become important, so why not wait for the next model in 2022, presumably, and enjoy a slightly inferior phone until then?

Well because it would be a waste of money.

But a fun one!

The S61 definitely ticks more of the "fun toy!" boxes both aesthetically, functionally, and financially whereas the S62 just looks like a chonky phone at flagship phone pricing. The S61 just looks cooler.

So if I buy one, it'll be the S61, with the knowledge that in a year or two I'll need to be in the market again. If I don't we'll re-evaluate in "early 2021" if the S62 ever comes out.

[TexturedSoyProtein]

The problem with that CAT S62 is that so far there's no US/North America version. The international version won't work right on 4g networks in the US because it doesn't have the necessary LTE bands.

I'm not a Samsung fan but they make the Galaxy XCover Pro which is ruggedized with mid-level specs and works on US carriers, but no FLIR camera.

Or you could just get an actually good phone and slap a too-big beefy rugged case on it.

[AkioOhtori]

@texturedsoyprotein But FLIR!! Environmental sensors! Actually funny enough I'm not really looking at the S61/62 because of hardiness, I just like gadgets. All of my moto phones have survived on just a normal plastic case. (All of my LG phones die repeatedly and without warning, but that is something else.)

[VincentMalamute]

@AkioOhtori Any opinion or experience with the FLIR add-ons? hm, almost the same cost as a cell phone, but I've thought about getting one. https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-Pro-Grade-Thermal-Smartphones-Accessory/dp/B07V5BYMZM/ref=sr_1_16?crid=X0YDLQ81E5ZJ&dchild=1&keywords=flir+cell+phone&qid=1607027938&sprefix=FLIR+cell%2Caps%2C375&sr=8-16

[MUSASHI66]

All horrible choices for support, accessories, cases, and flat out for just working in USA. Spending that much money on an old Android 9 phone is a bad financial decision, but very oppo

I just spent $630 to pay of my iPhone 11 Pro with Verizon, traded it in for $930 on T-Mobile, and paid the $270 difference to get 12 Pro Max 256GB, so what do I know about good financial decisions...

[SilentbutnotreallyDeadly]

@AkioOhtori Blackview and Ulefone (amongst others) do rugged phones with FLIR cameras as well...some of which even run Android 11. But I think the same issue of incompatibility with US networks may arise...

[AkioOhtori]

@VincentMalamute Only that they are available but, as you've noted, expensive. Neat from a "use on any device" perspective, but the convenience of it being built into a phone is big. Not sure I'd use a FLIR nearly as often if I had to remember where it is, remove my case, plug it in, wait for the software to update, etc.

Edit: Oops responded to the wrong Oppo.

[TexturedSoyProtein]

@akioohtori I enjoyed my old Moto X Pure (2015) and my wife had a G5+. Under Lenovo ownership they've kept their nice clean software but they're atrocious at updates. They tend to have quality control problems the more expensive you go.

The Moto G series used to be my go-to recommended phone for people who just want a cheap decent good reliable phone with clean software, but that's been usurped by the Pixel 3a and 4a.

There's not much in Moto's current lineup that I'd recommend over a Pixel or OnePlus. With the Pixel 4a being only $350, basically the only Moto phones I'd recommend are those that are cheaper than the 4a. The G Power has a bigass battery and is cheap at around $250 (or less if on sale). The G Stylus adds a stylus and better camera for $300 but still no NFC. Both of these have rather bigger screens than the Pixel 4a so there's that, but still. They have basically no update support.

[AkioOhtori]

@texturedsoyprotein Oof, I forgot about the 4a. A 4a 5G would be a worthy contender, though not sure it is worth the $150 upcharge over the regular 4a. Still... $500 for a 5G phone that'd probably last quite a few years...

I agree I wish Motorola was producing phones for the US market right now. The G8 Plus I bought was great except for not working in the US. I think they're up to the G9 or G10, but still pushing the G7, which is only an incremental upgrade over the G6, here.

[TexturedSoyProtein]

@akioohtori The G Fast/Power/Stylus are the most current G models for the US. There's a whole mishmash of G and One models sold in other countries that aren't sold here. We do get sorta kinda US versions of several One models that don't actually run Android One and don't work on Verizon.

4a 5G is a meaningful upgrade over the 4a. In addition to the 5G connectivity it also bumps the CPU from SD730 to SD765, there's the bigger screen, and you gain an ultra-wide camera.

OnePlus is bringing its lower-priced Nord line to the US soon. The Nord N10 5G has an SD690 which despite the numbering convention is closer in performance to the SD765 in the 4a 5G than the SD730 in the 4a. If it comes in rather cheaper than the 4a 5G that could be a contender for you as well. But the Nord line gets less software update support than top-tier OnePlus models so I definitely wouldn't pay $500 for it when the 4a 5G exists.

[EssExTee]

@AkioOhtori Are you aware you can just buy a regular phone with no compromises and just add an infrared camera to it for the few times you want to play with it? https://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-gen-3/?model=435-0005-02

[Wrong Wheel Drive]

What value does a FLIR camera actually serve for a phone?? Ive used FLIR cameras before and they are neat but I cant imagine why I would need/want that in my pocket. I love the random things that CAT makes. My jumper/pump kit for the car is CAT branded.

[Verdog]

iPhone and FLiR adapter.

[Verdog]

@essextee See if that Gal/Guy is REALLY into you! LOL.

[EssExTee]

@verdog if it's a guy there are indicators already in the visible light spectrum

[VincentMalamute]

@wrong-wheel-drive said in Further Phone Musings (CAT S61 vs S62):

I love the random things that CAT makes. My jumper/pump kit for the car is CAT branded.

I assume your second sentence is correct. That CAT is just selling their brand to various companies or having other companies make the products. I was just thinking about this looking at my work boots and wondering what possessed me to think CAT would know how to make good work boots.

What value does a FLIR camera actually serve for a phone?? Ive used FLIR cameras before and they are neat but I cant imagine why I would need/want that in my pocket.

I was considering a FLIR attachment for a phone thinking they'd be less expensive than a standalone unit. Yeah, I don't need them often enough for them to be built in.

[2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata]

I work for CAT and forgot we had these! Time to break out the one safe source catalog and see what I can get!

[AkioOhtori]

@2-jeeps-and-a-mustang-wants-a-fiata Excellent. Tell the person in charge to do... better. Ok so they don't actually work for CAT... CAT contracts it out to Bullitt but still. These phone are so very close to awesome but just fall slightly short. A little too expensive and a little too underpowered and a little too unsupported. Fix any one of these and I'd have one on the way. (Who am I kidding? It arrives Saturday...)

[2 Jeeps and a Mustang wants a Fiata]

Let me know how you like it. I can get parts at cost so im mildly intrigued by this.

[Jawzx2]

@vincentmalamute there are cheaper models too.

https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-One-Thermal-Imager-Android/dp/B0728C7KNC/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=infrared%2Bcell%2Bphone%2Bcamera&qid=1607180308&sprefix=Infrared%2Bcell&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1

[VincentMalamute]

@jawzx2 Nice! I wonder what the difference is for 1/3 less cost?