An "effort" was made

[HammerheadFistpunch]

Toyota...tried. I guess. They could try again. they wont, but they could.

[CarsOfFortLangley]

@hammerheadfistpunch I'm increasingly convinced Toyota doesn't like money. Electric cars? Nah, we'll focus on hydrogen (while the tech maybe better, it's clear which way the market winds are blowing).

Build another small offroader that would print money? Nah, but look how aggressive the Rav4 is! A new Supra? Sure, here's a badge engineered BMW

[jminer]

@carsoffortlangley if they don't change they'll be in trouble in 10 years, but they still are the market leader in most classes today.

I've always liked Hydrogen long-term but that's still a long ways away from viable where battery is pretty damn close today for 98% of use cases in passenger vehicles. I bet Hydrogen will take hold in commercial vehicles but Toyota doesn't have much market in that in the US. Think panel vans, city busses and semi-trucks.

[CarsOfFortLangley]

@jminer Yeah, I'd say hydrogen is pretty mainstream already for busses and some municipal vehicles here. CNG as well

[jminer]

@carsoffortlangley CNG has been big here for that for a while. Hydrogen is still fairly fringe outside of the west coast for it, but I see that changing (hopefully).

[Skyfire77]

@carsoffortlangley said in An "effort" was made:

we'll focus on hydrogen (while the tech maybe better,

Is that true? I haven't paid too much attention recently, but I was under the impression that most if not all H2 was still being sourced from dino-juice (somewhat efficient but not very "green") or cracking water (which looks green until you realize how much power you really need, which means renewables can't hack it), and that there was still the issue of making sure it stayed in the tanks you put it in, which meant dewars and high pressures.

[TheTurbochargedSquirrel]

@carsoffortlangley Toyota has electric tech, they've been developing it for 20+ years (they have put more electric drive motors into cars than anyone else). They just package that tech in hybrids because hybrids have a wider market appeal than pure EVs do. They can easily start making more pure EVs as it makes business sense for them to do so and have EVs in the pipeline right now. They are applying R&D resources to hydrogen as an alternative because lithium batteries have a lot of potential issues that will come up if we try to build every car around a large battery. It's not putting all the eggs of the automobile's future into a single basket.

[bison78]

@jminer said in An "effort" was made:

@carsoffortlangley if they don't change they'll be in trouble in 10 years,

Toyoda will be retired by them.

[ttyymmnn]

@carsoffortlangley said in An "effort" was made:

I'm increasingly convinced Toyota doesn't like money.

I don't know, I see an absolute shit ton of Toyotas of all kinds around here.

[jminer]

@skyfire77 the best (and most expensive to build) way to do it is to split water with renewables but this is still a minority of H2 production. That being said, it is less also efficient than just using that same energy to charge a battery powered vehicle. I think H2 is best used in places where traditional battery power won't do.

[ttyymmnn]

@hammerheadfistpunch

But think of the fun you can have off-road!

[jminer]

@bison78 said in An "effort" was made:

@jminer said in An "effort" was made:

@carsoffortlangley if they don't change they'll be in trouble in 10 years,

Toyoda will be retired by them.

Won't the next generation of Toyoda take over then? Or is the family done managing the company?

[bison78]

@jminer said in An "effort" was made:

@skyfire77 the best (and most expensive to build) way to do it is to split water with renewables but this is still a minority of H2 production. That being said, it is less also efficient than just using that same energy to charge a battery powered vehicle. I think HE is best used in places where traditional battery power won't do.

Hydrogen is currently an inefficient way to use fossil fuels.

[Skyfire77]

@jminer @bison78 Yeah, that's what I've heard as well.

[bison78]

@jminer said in An "effort" was made:

@bison78 said in An "effort" was made:

@jminer said in An "effort" was made:

@carsoffortlangley if they don't change they'll be in trouble in 10 years,

Toyoda will be retired by them.

Won't the next generation of Toyoda take over then? Or is the family done managing the company?

Maybe, but I don't think the current Toyoda cares. I think that he cares more about the impact a switch to BEVs would have on employees and suppliers in the short term.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/09/business/electric-cars-japan.html
'Japanese automakers are “hanging on by their fingernails,” he [Toyoda] added, and if Japan mandated a shift to all-electric vehicles — which have fewer components and are easier to manufacture — it could cost millions of jobs and destroy a whole ecosystem of auto parts suppliers.'

[jminer]

@bison78 most definitely! If it grows larger in use case it'll have to be produced by solar/wind splitting water.

[Adabofoppo- Has Gone Plaid]

Hydrogen is a terrible way to power an EV.

Sure we could use solar/wind, or gasp, nuclear to split water. Great! Now you have the single most reactive element in gaseous form. Have fun storing that...

Oh and it needs to be a liquid to work in large quantities, so now you have to use even more energy to compress it to make it dense enough to be barely useful.

Everyone loves the idea of hydrogen. The reality does not live up to the myth. And those pushing it want it to happen because it is very close to what we have already, therefore they would not need to spend much to adapt. Can't hurt those quarterly increases!

Until advances can be made that dramatically increase the energy density such that H+ is better than just a battery, it will not widely be adopted.

[nermal]

@carsoffortlangley said in An "effort" was made:

Build another small offroader that would print money?

All they need to do is badge engineer a Tacoma frame and drivetrain with a "retro" SUV body that looks like an old FJ.

It would sell enough to pay for itself and then some, especially since all of the expensive work is already done.

[HammerheadFistpunch]

@nermal said in An "effort" was made:

All they need to do is badge engineer a Tacoma frame and drivetrain with a "retro" SUV body that looks like an old FJ.

This is EXACTLY the concept that ICON built for Toyota that got the ball rolling on the FJC

[nermal]

@hammerheadfistpunch If something that looked like that was available new today in the same $35k to $50k range as the Tacoma, they would sell the crap outta them. Even with drum brakes and leaf springs.

[ranwhenparked]

@hammerheadfistpunch To this day, I have no idea where they got the inspiration for that c-pillar