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    The P-51D vs. the P-51H: The best looking and the best performing?

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    • ttyymmnn
      ttyymmnn last edited by ttyymmnn

      I posted this back in June to go along with a TDIAH article about the F-82 Twin Mustang. Now that I have the amazing P-51D to P-51H morph created by @WBizarre, I thought it would be a fun time to repost.

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      p51dh lead.jpg

      P-51D top, P-51H bottom. The D model was the definitive variant, while the H model was perhaps the best. (US Air Force)

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      With most military aircraft, there is a significant amount of development and evolution that takes place over the life of a wartime fighter. Those changes can either be entirely internal, and not affect the outward appearance of the aircraft, or they can be external, with modifications to the overall shape of the aircraft, even though the general layout remains the same. And of course, it could also be a combination of the two. The North American P-51 Mustang was one of the best piston-engined fighters to emerge from WWII. And it underwent a host of tweaks and changes that made what many consider the best fighter even better.

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      p51 prot.jpg

      North American NA-73X, the prototype P-51 (US Air Force)

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      Though the Mustang is most closely associated with American forces, it was the British who, facing a shortage of fighters, first approached North American Aviation and asked them to build the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk for the RAF. NAA President James “Dutch” Kindelberger replied by saying that his team could design and build a better fighter in the same amount of time it would take to tool up for the Warhawk. Led by chief designer Edgar Schmued, North American rolled out the prototype P-51 Mustang in just 102 days. Powered by the remarkable Packard Merlin V-12 engine, the Mustang was arguably one of the greatest piston-powered fighters to come out of WWII and, some might say, the best ever.

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      p51b.jpg

      The tenth production P-51B was modified and served as the prototype for the P-51D. Note the teardrop canopy with armored windscreen, and angled wing root. The production D model would receive the extended vertical stabilizer, or fin fillet. (US Government)

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      The Mustang underwent many changes as it matured throughout the war. But the most notable structural changes came with the P-51D variant, which eliminated the dangerous blind spot behind the pilot by replacing the original canopy with a plexiglass teardrop canopy. The loss of the dorsal ridge behind the cockpit induced yaw instability in a dive, so the vertical stabilizer was extended, though this change was not included in the initial D models. Other outward changes that came with the Mustang D included wing root fillets to accommodate redesigned landing gear which gave the Mustang its characteristic angled leading edge. The P-51D became the definitive variant and served in the highest numbers.

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      p51 h flight.jpg

      A California Air National Guard P-51H in flight (US Air Force)

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      Even though the Mustang D proved to be an exceptional fighter with remarkable range and maneuverability, there was still room for improvement. Beginning with the XP-51F and G, North American made the aircraft several hundred pounds lighter while extending the fuselage. The vertical stabilizer was made taller to improve yaw performance, while the ventral air intake was reshaped and lengthened. The result was a slightly taller, more slab-sided fuselage. A new Packard V-1650-9 Merlin with water injection, paired with new automatic supercharger boost control, provided up to 2,270 hp at full tilt, and a new, uncuffed propeller with rounded tips got the most power from the engine (this prop also appeared on later D production models). With less weight and more power, the H was now capable of speeds up to 472 mph, about 30 mph faster than the D.

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      p51 comp.jpg

      P-51D, top, compared to P-51H (Bill Larkins)

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      alt text

      See how the P-51 morphed into the P-51H, with the thickening of the fuselage, larger slab sides, and taller tail. The H model was also about 12 inches longer. | Morph: @WBizarre

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      The P-51H, along with the improved Republic P-47N Thunderbolt, were planned as the main fighter force for the anticipated invasion of Japan. And while some H model Mustangs did make it to fighting units, none saw action in WWII. With the end of the war, most of the 555 that were built served stateside in Air National Guard units, while the abundant and battle-tested D model fought in Korea. North American also used the H model, or two of them, with some structural modifications, to create the F-82 Twin Mustang.

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      f-82.jpg

      The F-82 Twin Mustang was created by joining two P-51H Mustangs (US Air Force)

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      P-51D Mustangs of the California Air National Guard (US Air Force)

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      P-51H Mustangs of the Maryland Air National Guard (US Air Force)

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      Author’s musings: Though performance was improved in the H model, I can’t help but think that the Mustang lost something in the looks department. Of course, looks don’t win dogfights, but there was a balance to the lines and shape of the classic Mustang D. Somehow, at least to me, the H seems a bit more ungainly, though its performance says otherwise. Maybe it’s also the taller tail, or the extended ventral intake. But somehow, the proportions just seem...off. However, if you like the taller tail with the classic fuselage profile, there’s always the Cavalier Mustang.

      #Planelopnik all the things

      Yamaha YTR-8335
      Yamaha YTR-8445
      Schilke P5-4

      facw BicycleBuck Highlander Skyfire77 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 6
      • facw
        facw @ttyymmnn last edited by

        @ttyymmnn But how about this?
        12b499c6-c8b9-454c-b725-0c4dbdf8ae80-image.png
        da36b3c9-5a39-47fa-a23a-471719d61ffe-image.png
        Ramjets and pulsejets for that extra oomph

        Or if you wanted to be really obscene, shove a turboprop in there:
        33742e40-d582-47f1-8dd2-d6ecb938bf93-image.png

        ttyymmnn 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • BicycleBuck
          BicycleBuck @ttyymmnn last edited by

          @ttyymmnn
          F-82 gets my vote! Twin tails and all....

          Never discount the possibility that you might live through it.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • ttyymmnn
            ttyymmnn @facw last edited by

            @facw

            I've seen that second photo with the V-1 engines, but not the top one. That's wild.

            #Planelopnik all the things

            Yamaha YTR-8335
            Yamaha YTR-8445
            Schilke P5-4

            facw 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Highlander
              Highlander @ttyymmnn last edited by

              @ttyymmnn The Corsair would like a word...98a1fae8-c6f7-43c2-ab67-6711903f4181-image.png

              71 Datsun
              2011 Honda
              2013 Subaru
              2006 Mazda

              ttyymmnn Rusty Vandura benn454 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 5
              • facw
                facw @ttyymmnn last edited by

                @ttyymmnn Strictly speaking the engines in the second one are supposed to be Fords (though yeah, reverse engineered from the V-1 engine)

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • ttyymmnn
                  ttyymmnn @facw last edited by

                  @facw @BicycleBuck

                  And while we're at it, why not the Mustang FSW concept?

                  Mustang FSW 1.jpg

                  #Planelopnik all the things

                  Yamaha YTR-8335
                  Yamaha YTR-8445
                  Schilke P5-4

                  Urambo Tauro 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • ttyymmnn
                    ttyymmnn @Highlander last edited by ttyymmnn

                    @highlander

                    Corsair would like a word...

                    Please note that I used qualifiers in all of my statements. I think finding the single best fighter (or anything) is dumb. We're much better off with a top 5 list, or even top 10.

                    #Planelopnik all the things

                    Yamaha YTR-8335
                    Yamaha YTR-8445
                    Schilke P5-4

                    Highlander newjoekaz doodon2whls 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • Highlander
                      Highlander @ttyymmnn last edited by

                      @ttyymmnn I just love the lines of the Corsair. It's such a pleasing thing to look at.

                      71 Datsun
                      2011 Honda
                      2013 Subaru
                      2006 Mazda

                      ttyymmnn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • facw
                        facw @ttyymmnn last edited by facw

                        @ttyymmnn Found another photo of the ramjet Mustang:
                        c760d898-b3ba-4b48-88e7-751854e06ccc-image.png
                        Apparently one of the ramjets exploded on its sole flight causing a crash, though fortunately the pilot bailed out and survived.

                        Side view too, though a low quality scan:
                        5e244d59-048f-46a1-8635-4953c4288d6a-image.png

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • ttyymmnn
                          ttyymmnn @Highlander last edited by ttyymmnn

                          @highlander said in The P-51D vs. the P-51H: The best looking and the best performing?:

                          It's such a pleasing thing to look at.

                          Agreed, but it came a long way from its homely prototype. The Corsair didn't gain its classic long nose until they moved the cockpit back to install a big-ass fuel tank.

                          Screen Shot 2021-08-10 at 2.08.03 PM.png

                          #Planelopnik all the things

                          Yamaha YTR-8335
                          Yamaha YTR-8445
                          Schilke P5-4

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • Rusty Vandura
                            Rusty Vandura @Highlander last edited by

                            @highlander said in The P-51D vs. the P-51H: The best looking and the best performing?:

                            @ttyymmnn The Corsair would like a word...

                            The Spad.

                            9d7d2dc4-6bc4-462c-b66c-5f221c82379a-image.png

                            The Van of Theseus

                            The entropy of my garage is always increasing.

                            ttyymmnn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • ttyymmnn
                              ttyymmnn @Rusty Vandura last edited by

                              @rusty-vandura

                              Another all-time favorite. I have had the distinct pleasure of seeing--and hearing--one of those things in flight. Jets are cool, but there's nothing like the sound of those radials banging out.

                              #Planelopnik all the things

                              Yamaha YTR-8335
                              Yamaha YTR-8445
                              Schilke P5-4

                              Rusty Vandura 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Skyfire77
                                Skyfire77 @ttyymmnn last edited by

                                @ttyymmnn A minor clarification: the P-82 is based on the design of the XP-51F, but are further modified with a 57" extension behind the cockpit for fuel and equipment, and is a wholly new design. The prototypes as well as the production P/F-82s were also all new-build aircraft.

                                Wingnut. Aviation geek. Aircraft enthusiast. A plane freak.

                                ttyymmnn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • ttyymmnn
                                  ttyymmnn @Skyfire77 last edited by

                                  @skyfire77

                                  Thanks. I threw an edit in there. I do try to avoid getting too heavily into the weeds with some of these posts, which often result in some generalities.

                                  #Planelopnik all the things

                                  Yamaha YTR-8335
                                  Yamaha YTR-8445
                                  Schilke P5-4

                                  Skyfire77 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Skyfire77
                                    Skyfire77 @ttyymmnn last edited by

                                    @ttyymmnn I know, aviation urban legends are just one of my bugbears, like the P-82 being two Mustangs stitched together, or LBJ getting the Blackbird's designation wrong, and the USAF changing it because the president can't be wrong...

                                    Wingnut. Aviation geek. Aircraft enthusiast. A plane freak.

                                    ttyymmnn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • ttyymmnn
                                      ttyymmnn @Skyfire77 last edited by

                                      @skyfire77

                                      You do know that the Super Hornet is simply an enlarged Hornet, right?

                                      /Triggered

                                      #Planelopnik all the things

                                      Yamaha YTR-8335
                                      Yamaha YTR-8445
                                      Schilke P5-4

                                      facw Highlander 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • facw
                                        facw @ttyymmnn last edited by

                                        @ttyymmnn of course it's not just that. They made the intakes trapezoids!

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • benn454
                                          benn454 @Highlander last edited by

                                          @highlander alt text

                                          Arguably not even the best Navy fighter.

                                          This post brought to you by the Grumman Iron Works Gang.

                                          ttyymmnn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • Highlander
                                            Highlander @ttyymmnn last edited by

                                            @ttyymmnn the same way the 737-800 is the same as the 737-Max.

                                            71 Datsun
                                            2011 Honda
                                            2013 Subaru
                                            2006 Mazda

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • ttyymmnn
                                              ttyymmnn @benn454 last edited by

                                              @benn454

                                              Not a fighter, a brawler. A brawler who brought its pilots home.

                                              alt text

                                              alt text

                                              #Planelopnik all the things

                                              Yamaha YTR-8335
                                              Yamaha YTR-8445
                                              Schilke P5-4

                                              benn454 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                              • benn454
                                                benn454 @ttyymmnn last edited by

                                                @ttyymmnn Hey, sometimes you have to bring a sledgehammer to a knife fight.

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                • Urambo Tauro
                                                  Urambo Tauro @ttyymmnn last edited by Urambo Tauro

                                                  @ttyymmnn said in The P-51D vs. the P-51H: The best looking and the best performing?:

                                                  And while we're at it, why not the Mustang FSW concept?

                                                  Mustang FSW 1.jpg

                                                  Almost thought you said Mustang FWD concept
                                                  1989-Ford-Mustang-FWD-design-proposal-clay-model-front-three-quarters-view1.jpg

                                                  1995 Mustang GT
                                                  1998 Wrangler Sport

                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                  • newjoekaz
                                                    newjoekaz @ttyymmnn last edited by

                                                    @ttyymmnn in no particular order.
                                                    P51 Mustang
                                                    F4U Corsair
                                                    P47 (Thunderbolt?)
                                                    P40 Tiger shark
                                                    F8F Bearcat
                                                    P38 Lightning

                                                    What did I miss?

                                                    And I need more than 75 characters for my signature. I got more shit to lis

                                                    gmporschenut also a fan of hondas ttyymmnn 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • Rusty Vandura
                                                      Rusty Vandura @ttyymmnn last edited by

                                                      @ttyymmnn said in The P-51D vs. the P-51H: The best looking and the best performing?:

                                                      @rusty-vandura

                                                      Another all-time favorite. I have had the distinct pleasure of seeing--and hearing--one of those things in flight. Jets are cool, but there's nothing like the sound of those radials banging out.

                                                      Wright R-3350 18-cylinder engine, 2,700 hp.

                                                      The Van of Theseus

                                                      The entropy of my garage is always increasing.

                                                      ttyymmnn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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