That's not something you want to see at Auto-X

[AkursedX]

This photo was shared in one of my local regions FB group yesterday. I know it was at an event in the GTA where I think a couple members of this group might run at. If anyone was there I'd certainly like to hear some more details.

I'm told that cone on the left is part of the course and that is incredible close to the paddock area.

EDIT: if you click on THIS LINK you can see a video from the event. Around the 30-second mark you can see the 90* left-hander and the truck in the background. There are a number of other things that are pretty cringe-y about this course IMO.

[pip bip]

@akursedx

[Cash Rewards]

@akursedx if that cone on the left is part of the course, this is a hard nope from me. Ive learned that lesson before. And I believe it is, too. There isn't a single tire mark on the pavement behind that R, driver never had a chance to brake.

I wrote this up on old OPPO, but I was at my first non-SCCA event out here, and it was one of those local high school parking lot scenarios. The local scca group ran at FedEx field, so this was a massive change for me. In the afternoon session an M3 got on the power too early leaving the last slalom before the finish, hopped a concrete parking lot block, tore through a fence, and hit a light post. People were saying "of all the places for him to lose it", but looking at how the course was set up, it was inevitable. This looks to be the same. Safety is your responsibility, we all gotta walk courses not just for what line, but also for is this safe.

[SamV8]

do you lot not have any regs that state the course must be X amount of yards/feet from the paddock? if so its clearly not far enough and needs amending

[Cash Rewards]

@samv8 Scca does. Ive found it to be lacking in other non scca groups, though

[Roadkilled]

@cash-rewards said in That's not something you want to see at Auto-X:

There isn't a single tire mark on the pavement behind that R, driver never had a chance to brake.

This is pure speculation, but it's possible the driver is new at this and didn't turn off the electronic assists. If antilock braking was active, you might not see skid marks. The nose of the VW would need to dive a bit to get under the truck, which could mean heavy braking at that point. I wouldn't expect a car to go under a truck like that unless it had more of a sloping front.

[Cash Rewards]

@roadkilled you could be absolutely right! Could be a lowered R and a raised 250, could be ABS, could be both/all. No idea.

[AkursedX]

@cash-rewards Yeah, I've become the main course designer for my local SCCA region. We run at the Bills Stadium where our lots have armco barriers and a couple of light poles. Designing safe, but fun courses is challenging at times. I have intentionally not become a safety steward because of this role. When a safety steward comes to me with a concern in the morning I will always automatically defer to them and adust the course into something that they are happy with. This has only happened a couple of times thankfully and involved minor changes like moving a gate half a parking spot or adding pointers or a cone wall to places.

But even with all this planning, sometimes things happen that you cant anticipate. Two events ago we had a Miata had it's throttle cable stick wide open into a hard brake zone. The driver didn't clutch-in or put it in neutral in time and put himself into landscape stones that were over 85ft from the end of course (Rules dictate a minimum of 50ft). I felt terrible about it for days even though there was of 165ft of skid marks on the ground. The car actually dug into the ground about 6" on the drivers side rear because the throttle was still open.

[AkursedX]

@roadkilled I have not seen the video but other people who said they have seen it said that the driver went into the 90* turn too hot and plowed into the truck under hard braking.

[dogisbadob]

par for the course is hitting part of the course

[Cash Rewards]

@akursedx this was the only accident i saw that wasn't avoidable past the initial driver error. Once he made that mistake he was done. Brake and clutch in, doesn't matter. And if that happens, its on the course designer, the safety official, and everyone who walked the course and assumed.

Ive seen other scenarios where the driver compounded the initial error by trying to save it when he should have just braked. Those are on the driver, and you can't design for that.

But mechanical failure? Oof. Sucks all around, but certainly no one at fault.

[DasWauto]

@akursedx I think @The-Crazy-Kanuck may have been there but I haven’t been to a PITL event since early 2019.

The series is well run but they don’t use SCCA classing (other series around here do) and presumably not their course design guidelines either. Their previous venues have always had the course in a separate lot from the paddock to avoid such possibilities but I haven’t been to an event at BMO field as they only started using it last year.

[DasWauto]

@cash-rewards @Roadkilled I know this car, it is lowered. ABS would almost certainly not have been disabled, though ESC likely was, at least as far as VW will let you. I’m not connected with the driver so I can’t speak to what exactly happened.

[The Crazy Kanuck Going 2 Wheels]

@akursedx @DasWauto
I was there at that event, I'll give the run down from my opinion & talking to others.
1: Driver error. That driver is always top 10 in a 120+ field of cars. He goes balls to the wall, he just went too far past the limit.
2: Course design. It was shit, pure shit. There was a drop on the pavement(3ft-ish), & it was off camber. During the course walk many (including me) complained to organizers about that particular corner, & how it was going to end bad. I took that corner way to slow on purpose.
3: The parking. The usual paddok/parking was closed due to being prepped for resurfacing, so parking was not ideal. Right due to COVID it's the only venue the club can get.

Looking at the car after it was pulled out from under the truck the passenger side tie rod end was broken(driver side was fine). Some speculated it could have broke prior to the accident, causing it. That lot is hard on cars(especially modified cars), & I would not be shocked if that was the case.

Talking to driver of car afterward he finished talking to EMS, organizers, etc. His words "Braked just before the drop like other runs, I turned & it was not turning. Bang." You could see marks on the front tires from them being dragged sideways across the pavement.

Lastly he walked away, & is doing fine. Fire & EMS showed up quickly, it was felt with in a very professional matter. As soon as it happens the head organizer ran to grab the book. It happened, not a great way to end an event.

Fin.

[The Crazy Kanuck Going 2 Wheels]

@akursedx @DasWauto

Lots of zip ties so could be towed away. I stuffed hood in the back of it.

The said off camber drop, putting a chicane before it to slow cars down would have helped LOTS.