Land Cruiser Emissions Update
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The Land Cruiser has failed its 3rd emissions test. After new plugs, new plug wires, new distributor cap/rotor, new primary O2 sensor, and new EGR VSV, a spirited drive to heat the cats and 91 octane to reduce pre-ignition, it produced its worst test results to date.Apart from a few last-ditch efforts, the consensus is that it's time for new cats. Current options are Magnaflow aftermarket ones for about $600 which have a life expectancy of 3-5 years, or OEM cats for about $2k which should last another 15-25 years.
I'm ready for this year to be over.
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Rats. Sounds like OEM would be the way to go, except what’s your ownership expectancy for the car?
Curator, Kia enthusiast, dad joke specialist
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@chariotoflove said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
Rats. Sounds like OEM would be the way to go, except what’s your ownership expectancy for the car?
I'd like to think that I'll own this vehicle until it's no longer drivable, but I realize that might be beyond my control at some point. It's almost 24 years old with 195k miles at this point, so I'm really not sure where to go.
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@benjrblant said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
@chariotoflove said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
Rats. Sounds like OEM would be the way to go, except what’s your ownership expectancy for the car?
I'd like to think that I'll own this vehicle until it's no longer drivable, but I realize that might be beyond my control at some point. It's almost 24 years old with 195k miles at this point, so I'm really not sure where to go.
Well, if you feel that way about it, then you probably have to get the best parts that are worth the money. Cheaping out on lesser ones will probably hasten it’s demise and increase your frustration. The only reason to go cheaper would be if you are looking to sell within the next couple of years.
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Cats are designed to last (I think by federal mandate) 10 years and/or 100,000 miles. Yours have lasted twice that long. Since it's a Land Cruiser, I'd say that it's worth the OEM cats if you have the budget.Okay never mind everybody else's ideas are way better.
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What year is the LC again? For $600 I assume those are the direct fit aftermarket versions? If direct fit, go with those and invest the remaining $1400. They have a 5 year 25k mile warranty. See where you are with both in 5 years. Your $1400 will be back to $2k in value and If there are problems with the cats you can still buy another set and for $600 and be set for another 5 years.
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Save your money. Spend the $600 now and take the $1400 balance and invest it into something that will appreciate over time. You might lose 3 to 5 years of utility after 15 years if you buy $2,000 of the less expensive cats, but you'll be ahead financially even after spending some of the money for replacement cats. Of course you might sell or junk the LC after 5 years and will be ahead financially also.
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@66p1800inpieces said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
What year is the LC again? For $600 I assume those are the direct fit aftermarket versions? If direct fit, go with those and invest the remaining $1400. They have a 5 year 25k mile warranty. See where you are with both in 5 years. Your $1400 will be back to $2k in value and If there are problems with the cats you can still buy another set and for $600 and be set for another 5 years.
- Magnaflow sells a "direct fit" front and rear cat for my vehicle but the shop experience is that it still takes some BFH-ing to fit.
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Yeah, all aftermarket stuff should just come with oval holes to ensure things fit.
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@benjrblant My state used to offer this thing where, if you spent over $175.00 at a certified mechanic for emissions repair, they would allow you to renew registration. Does colorado offer anything like that?
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Vote for OEM cats if you're keeping it a while. My buddy has an 2001 Audi A8 and has gone through several (maybe three?) of the Magnaflow cats in the last few years. They may have a 5 year warranty but they won't reimburse you for the hassle and the labor to remove and install.
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@benjrblant Can you post the results so I can provide some insight?
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@his_stigness
Colorado uses an IM240 test. This means nothing to me, maybe it does to you? -
Holy son of a bitch. Now I want to slap anyone who bitches about the smog program in California. The IM240 is a simulated test similar to an EPA certification. Ours in California is a joke compared to that. The "hard" test is a simulated load on the dyno and the car is run at most 90 seconds at 15mph in 2nd gear, and then 25 mph in 2nd gear. But we also have "fast pass" where if the readings are lower enough the test is sped up and only lasts about 30 seconds or so. It's a joke.
But now to actual help. I can almost guarantee your problem is NOT the catalytic converters. Most likely based on the parts you've replaced so far I'd be looking at compression. You're failing for quite high CO readings. CO is indicative of INCOMPLETE combustion. HC is just raw fuel (so think leaking injector/miss-fire). And NOx is related to fuel ratio. Too lean and combustion will be too hot. But you have an EGR valve so the problems almost always lie there.
So check compression on all cylinders. Do both a wet and dry test.
But you can also easily test the catalytic converter efficiency with an IR probe and measure the temp before the bed and after. You should see about a 10% difference in the readings indicating that the bed is working. If you see no change then it's a safe bet the converter is bad. But like I said, just seeing high CO doesn't lead me to believe it's the cats. While replacing them may solve your problem, you'd be masking it and fail the next go around.
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@benjrblant that's why inspections suck.
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@benjrblant You might try Rockauto.com, two Walker cats and shipping for about $325?
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Check your state laws. They might exempt you from testing when the car is 25 years old. In that case, park it for a year.
1988 LTD Crown Victoria LX formal roof, 59k survivor
2018 CX-5 Sport AWD -
@jrpdx2 said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
@benjrblant You might try Rockauto.com, two Walker cats and shipping for about $325?
Rock Auto does not ship to Denver because of sales tax reasons. )=
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@old-busted-hotness said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
Check your state laws. They might exempt you from testing when the car is 25 years old. In that case, park it for a year.
Colorado does not have a rolling cutoff for emissions testing. Anything made after 1976 registered in certain counties is required to have an emissions test.
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@his_stigness
Thank you for your input! Wouldn't low compression show itself in other ways, such as a misfire, CEL, PCV problems, or some other crankcase pressure? It runs just fine in every other way and this is the first time i've heard of low compression causing high emissions. -
@benjrblant said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
@his_stigness
Thank you for your input! Wouldn't low compression show itself in other ways, such as a misfire, CEL, PCV problems, or some other crankcase pressure? It runs just fine in every other way and this is the first time i've heard of low compression causing high emissions.Most likely yes. But it's a good place to start. Same with checking the temperature of the catalytic converters.
Also, I should have asked already, but what year is the Land Cruiser?
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Pull a @Miss-Mercedes and register it in Vermont.
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@his_stigness said in Land Cruiser Emissions Update:
Also, I should have asked already, but what year is the Land Cruiser?
1997, OBD2, has two inline cats.
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Well those numbers are screaming combustion issue to me. Nothing about those numbers indicate a bad catalytic converter.
But, let me backpedal a little bit. In your post you say you only replaced the primary O2 sensor. That engine should have four: 1 per back pre cat and 1 on each bank post cat. So what O2 sensors have you replaced?
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@his_stigness It's got two O2 sensors, one pre-cat and one post-cat. this engine is an inline 6 with a 3-into-2 header and the first cat is a Y-pipe into one. both cats are inline, both cats receive 100% exhaust. They're heated, non-wide band sensors.
